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AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

charitydotwtf.substack.com

101–110 of 234 posts

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#101

> Those are not code problems. They are evaluation problems. > Code becomes precious when it is the only place knowledge lives. Reading AI code all day is _agonizing_. Just, a horrible way to live, and it melts people's brains at the moment you need them to be the most capable. Manual programming has this really productive and gratifying feedback loop, where you read the code, write the code, and fix it until it comp…

I agree that reading AI code all day is agonizing. We're relying on code review to develop parts of our mental model of the system that were previously developed through coding. We're having more difficulty comprehending and recall details of the system. This is probably unsurprising; people recall information better that they "generated" than information they read. I am applying some lessons from pedagogy to extend code review. If this resonates with you, I would like to talk.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#102
post #3

I did not enjoy reading this article. The writing was fine, and each individual paragraph was fine, but the whole thing together was meandering and dare I say pointless. It was so many words and yet so little seems to have been said.

Same, I like the general idea of that post. But the structure and verbosity made it such that I wouldn't want to share it with others.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#103

> Those are not code problems. They are evaluation problems. > Code becomes precious when it is the only place knowledge lives. Reading AI code all day is _agonizing_. Just, a horrible way to live, and it melts people's brains at the moment you need them to be the most capable. Manual programming has this really productive and gratifying feedback loop, where you read the code, write the code, and fix it until it comp…

the act, eval, adjust loop is probably neurologically important.. reading about things you didn't dive into is really a dread

depending on your industry, you might be able to ship half-slop and then fix some bugs downstream though

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#105
post #40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a coworker dumped a 5k-line code review on you, you'd tell them to come back when it's broken down into smaller, reviewable chunks. Large dumps of code are basically unreviewable by humans, but it seems like a lot of people have forgotten about that when it comes to LLMs.

I think they expect you to also use an LLM to review, and I bet they are doing exactly that when asked to review someone else's code.

Theres really no diff between a rubber stamp and an llm review, they both do the same thing.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#106
There's one thing that hasn't changed much with LLMs, and that's the notion of 'moving the needle'. People who sling slop don't meaningfully accomplish that if you're paying close attention to how your team or org or company actually needs to move. Although, if your team is focused on PRs and LOC, sure, the needle is popped off the gauge by LLMs. But your problem is not LLMs in that case.

I agree that AI demands more engineering discipline, but it also demands more domain knowledge, purpose, and intent. Suddenly we can actually accomplish most of our goals a little faster. I can take on work I couldn't before.

Before I even begin getting disciplined about engineering, I need to ask: does this work actually make sense? Should I do it? If it's done... What do I think will change for my team or organization? Will it have practical results that move us in the right direction?

The better you get at asking that question, the less you'll find yourself prompting and planning and shoving PRs into the chute. It's still somewhat difficult to find important work in many places.

Still, engineering discipline is and always has been critical when going ahead with important work.

My gut feeling is that many of us simply aren't doing important work, and the discipline might be nice but is ultimately irrelevant. The sloppers are doing a faster version of something they always have, and much of it will be lost to time just like our pre-slop work has been.

I find LLMs aren't as helpful when applied to well-thought and intentional work towards very specific goals in complex domains. They're still helpful, but, the deeper you go and the more specific you get, the more they tend to deliver results you can't use. If you're on the rails they can be incredible. Diverging from the track and having exacting requirements, eh, it gets pretty hit or miss and you can spend a lot of time herding a digital cat. This certainly demands a lot more engineering discipline.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#107
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this is gated by where you work (especially by how technically savvy your manager is), but the most effective contributors at my job tend to be the ones with near-zero (or sub-zero!) net LoC. LLMs are prolific and they love to add shit. Truly capable engineers are able to achieve more business outcomes with less code / fewer moving parts.

"Truly capable engineers are able to achieve more business outcomes with less code / fewer moving parts" I'd simplify to "Truly capable engineers are able to achieve more positive outcomes" - half of what makes a capable, dependable engineer is knowing what outcomes are needed and making them happen.

Good revision!

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#108
I fully agree with the „AI demands more engineering discipline“ premise.

And I‘ve quickly realized that it’s also much easier to follow that premise.

Not only because agents obviously help with writing documentation, test cases, DX tools, and so on.

But also because it feels so much more rewarding to know that someone — even if it’s just a soulless agent — actually cares to read and use and follow these.

I have always been the guy on the team who would write the tools and documentation, and it’s always been a bit frustrating to know that only half the team would care to read and use and follow them, at best.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#109
the ur-text behind this piece is: people just not understanding exponential capability growth. including the author of the piece!

if you could look clearly at the progress from 2020 to 2023, as someone like Gwern did, and from 2023 to 2024 with the invention of reasoning modes, then it was not that hard to understand what would happen in late 2025. Opus 4.5 was not a surprise to anyone who was actually paying attention.

But people (including the author) still mistake the current state as a stable state and future gains as incremental. he says

“I am not asserting that all code will eventually be AI-generated to spec, bypassing human understanding”

I AM asserting that, and it’s incredibly easy to do so.

The question of “when” is separate.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this is gated by where you work (especially by how technically savvy your manager is), but the most effective contributors at my job tend to be the ones with near-zero (or sub-zero!) net LoC. LLMs are prolific and they love to add shit. Truly capable engineers are able to achieve more business outcomes with less code / fewer moving parts.

I really can't agree with this. Sure pure LoC is a bad metric. But there is a correlation between output and LoC. Outside of a very senior developer, maybe a Principal or Lead that is spending all day in architecture meetings and reviewing PRs, most high performers are also outputting code.

This is exactly what the article is addressing:

> But there is a correlation between output and LoC.

That is less true today than it ever has been, due to LLMs.

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