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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#41

Post by 17383838 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #28
CPLX wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Before anyone starts talking about the free market, there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy. Unilateral s…

> The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Yeah, that was the argument against Japanese car makers, too. A shitty system needs destroying sometimes. Competition from Toyota/Honda was critical in making US auto makers up their game. It is terrible…

[dead]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#42

Post by CPLX »

stickfigure wrote: post #35
CPLX wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Before anyone starts talking about the free market, there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy. Unilateral s…

> The Chinese don't make these kinds of idiotic mistakes, which is how they have amassed the power, wealth, and influence that they have. I generally agree with most of what you said but not this. China's chief advantage is having a billion people. On average, they aren't that wealthy or powerful. And their leadership makes plenty of idiotic mistakes - look at their real estate market.

That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is.

Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off.

We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#43

Post by ceejayoz »

17383838 wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Yeah, that was the argument against Japanese car makers, too. A shitty system needs destroying sometimes. Competition from Toyota/Honda was critical in making US auto makers up their game. It is terrible…

[dead]

> automotive platforms are a key military asset

All the more reason not to save companies that can't compete in the global space. What good is a jeep that the Chinese laugh at?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#44

Post by Filligree »

Elzair wrote: post #38

To give credit where credit is due, it is good that the Trump administration has not avidly played these stupid export control games. They tend to do little except hurt open collaboration; I remember when all open source cryptography had to be developed outside the US due to ITAR.

I don’t have the emoji handy, so just imagine the most savagely doubtful-looking emoticon that anyone has ever made.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#45

Post by ceejayoz »

CPLX wrote: post #36
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Yeah, that was the argument against Japanese car makers, too. A shitty system needs destroying sometimes. Competition from Toyota/Honda was critical in making US auto makers up their game. It is terrible…

It's not like I don't understand the argument on the other side of this. I've heard it my entire life. It's been dominant since the late 1970s and 1980s. It's just that it's wrong. We need a competent industrial policy and support for skilled labor and policies that encourage domestic production. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but our country has become fucked, overwhelmed by financialization, scams, monopoly rents…

> We need a competent industrial policy and support for skilled labor and policies that encourage domestic production.

Yes!

But "tariff/ban BYD" is not that.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#46

Post by 8note »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #21
jmyeet wrote: post #12

The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…

The reason why some Capital Interests want to blacklist DeepSeek in the US is so that you are forced to buy Claude/GPT/Gemini, which will feed revenue into an industry that requires revenue (or it’s a big problem). The reason why some Capital Interests don’t want to ban DeepSeek is so companies that utilize AI have more options, and running your own DeepSeek cluster acts as an independent cost comparison for enterpri…

and it would be great to have an independent auditor have access to all the training material and good search tools, so that take down requests can be made by copyright owners

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#47

Post by regularization »

CPLX wrote: post #22
jmyeet wrote: post #12

The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…

The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Before anyone starts talking about the free market, there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy. Unilateral s…

> there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy.

Aside from countless other ways before and after this, the US government handed over tens of billions of dollars in cash to GM and Chrysler in 2008 and 2009.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#48

Post by dakolli »

wagwang wrote: post #33
dakolli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China does not think llms are a matter of national security, they aren't as brain broken as the west.

That's 100% untrue lmao.

China is far more focused on robotics. Deepseek is largely bootstrapped by the hedge fund that developed it. They received a grant from the government of China, and recently an investment. Imagine thinking text autocomplete is a matter of national security.

China will flood the west with affordable robotics and watch the West eat itself alive. They know Western capital owners are so greedy they'll screw over their entire society to chase a buck and replace labor..

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#49

Post by i_idiot »

CPLX wrote: post #42
stickfigure wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese don't make these kinds of idiotic mistakes, which is how they have amassed the power, wealth, and influence that they have. I generally agree with most of what you said but not this. China's chief advantage is having a billion people. On average, they aren't that wealthy or powerful. And their leadership makes plenty of idiotic mistakes - look at their real estate market.

That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is. Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off. We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were t…

I wouldn't consider India. It's been plagued by protectionism and tariffs and won't achieve anything close to China any time soon. The only industry of value for its people which is software services is now crumbling with AI created in US and China. Edit: probably your point too and I misread

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#50

Post by woadwarrior01 »

mystraline wrote: post #8

Hmm, my VPN provider explicitly has Chinese exit points. And whats funny is I can load AliPay from any CVS. (Like, seriously) You can try to pry Qwen and Deepseek from my Graphene/Linux hands.

What VPN provider is this? I could use it because Chinese users of my apps often complain about not being able to download things from my western hosted servers.
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