There was and still is a very nice competitor in this space called PlasticSCM. They were bought by Unity a few years ago. Unity has not been a good steward. They should have done what Epic is doing and open sourced it. But instead they chose to give it P&L responsibility. Curious what it's contributing to their financials.
Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
261–270 of 717 posts
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#262Fantastic. Every time I mix git and games I end up almost having an aneurysm.
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#263Too bad it does not support fully local/detached (without server). It would be nice to be able to run it similar to a local repo without remote
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something else that git isn't good at: permissions. In gamedev, you might have proprietary work that you want to restrict to certain users. In P4, you can add restrictions to certain directories for only those who have signed the required NDAs. That's not something that you can do in git: it's all or nothing. Maybe you can set something up with submodules, but that's going to upend your repository if you hadn't plann…
I once worked in a git repository that required those kinds of restrictions. This was within a bank and the code in question was related to enabling Apple Pay from within the banking application. The consequences of that information and code leaking or being seen by anyone who had not signed the NDA were very serious (don't remember the details but it made the lawyers were extremely stressed about it). Needing to fig…
Can confirm split repos is an excellent solution for protecting IP.
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#265Just today as I pushed some changes to Github, I was thinking how user-unfriendly Git's UI is: Enumerating objects: 5, done. Counting objects: 100% (5/5), done. Delta compression using up to 10 threads Compressing objects: 100% (3/3), done. Writing objects: 100% (3/3), 290 bytes | 290.00 KiB/s, done. Total 3 (delta 2), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 0 remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (2/2), completed with 2 local obje…
You don't care about any of this information, but that's fine; unless something is going wrong, you can ignore any information that isn't interesting to you.
Having this output is useful for when it does break and you need to copy-paste your terminal output to someone who does understand it to explain it to you or explain how to fix it, but you're correct that 90% of this is effectively debug output that is almost never useful or relevant.
In most cases I would say they should remove any output that isn't necessary, but given that some git operations can be extremely long-running it's beneficial to have some kind of output so the user knows what's going on.
Case in point, this is the output I get when I try to clone the Linux kernel:
Cloning into 'linux'...
remote: Enumerating objects: 11623749, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (396/396), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (189/189), done.
Receiving objects: 1% (181683/11623749), 90.11 MiB | 19.17 MiB/s
Also, I assume you're not but in case anyone is interested in the answers to these questions:
> What the hell is "delta compression"?
The 'delta' is the difference between one thing and another - usually one version of a file and another. Git does some fancy thinking to figure out which files are which other files but with changes, so that it can store just the changes from one version to the next.
For example, a 100 KB file where we only changed 500 bytes ten times would be 1000 KB, but because Git can store the deltas from one to the next it can be 100 KB (the original) plus ten 500-byte changes, for a total of about 105 KB.
> Why do I care how many threads it's using?
Because it directly affects how fast the process works; using 16 threads is 16x faster than using 1 thread (on average). Git automatically detects how many CPU threads are available and uses as many as it can, but if it's being very slow you might look and see 'oh, right, this VM only has two CPUs'.
> What is an 'object' and what does it mean when it's 'local'?
Uh, this one is deliberately vague I guess. An object is a thing that Git keeps track of. Usually this will refer to a blob, which is 'a bunch of bytes that make up a file', or a 'tree', which is a list of files and other trees - basically a directory structure, or a commit's information, but anything that Git keeps track of is an object.
Local just means that you already have a copy on your system. in the 'remote:' line you see output from the other end (where you're pushing to), so that's the server saying that it's using the files it already has.
> What does 'pack-reused' mean?
To be efficient, Git can take all the 'objects' and smush them into one big packfile (rather than having to keep track of hundreds or thousands of separate files). Since Git keeps track of files based on their contents, two identical files are just stored as one copy referenced twice, so it's possible that the file that you're pushing already exists in a pack file and can just be reused rather than having to push another copy.
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something else that git isn't good at: permissions. In gamedev, you might have proprietary work that you want to restrict to certain users. In P4, you can add restrictions to certain directories for only those who have signed the required NDAs. That's not something that you can do in git: it's all or nothing. Maybe you can set something up with submodules, but that's going to upend your repository if you hadn't plann…
The way I usually solve this is by using git submodules.
AFAIK the issue with using submodules is you still need the rights to pull the other source repo. However, you can use submodules or LFS to pull a specific build artifact from a build artifact repo or source instead of the source repo, which provides a neat way to manage the dep without fattening the main repo and allows the source repo to be kept separate and high security. I'd certainly do this before changing RCS/VCS solutions. That said, reverse engineering has become relatively trivial in the AI age so the practical utility of providing built rather than source elements is dropping.
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#267I wonder how many websites ChatGPT did by now...
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
And then they usually back their words by doing things like "you claim that outputting text to a terminal emulator is a PhD level problem, so here I did it in a weekend". Huge teams are more often than not the sign of bloat and inefficiences.
Casey was right, though. The windows terminal was (is, it's still there even if you use the new Terminal) atrocious. The performance is so bad, due to going through all the layers it does, which Casey exposed. And it's not even packed with features, pressing up on a new console doesn't bring you a command from history, which Linux terminals and 3rd party Windows ones have been doing for decades, even Powershell does…
> pressing up on a new console doesn't bring you a command from history, which Linux terminals and 3rd party Windows ones have been doing for decades, even Powershell does that.
I'm wondering if you're confusing Windows terminal with cmd.exe?
Windows terminal is not the shell. It's a terminal emulator. You run a shell inside of the terminal, for example you can run... Powershell.
Command history is a feature of the shell.
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was. I thought, and still think, that svn was much more pleasant to use than git. Alas, I am in the minority.
SVN was more straightforward to use, but that straightforwardness lost a lot in terms of fidelity. The fact that it was easy to clone a subdirectory was nice; the fact that branches were just subdirectories also was not nice. The fact that tags were mutable since they were also just subdirectories... the fact that every operation you ever did required going to the server (commit, log, checkout, everything) made it a…
git-svn did wonders when we had the code base on subversion
Re: Lore – Open source version control system designed for scalability
#270For context, since a lot of people on HN haven't worked on games - this is not intended to compete with Git for general software development. This is a competitor with Perforce for game development. Git is fine for text based files like code, but it's really bad at stuff like textures, 3D models, audio files, and other non-text files that game developers need to collaborate on. For example, one artist might need to o…
Can confirm, we have a team dedicated to the care and feeding of p4.