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U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

281–290 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#281
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money.

In theory it can also be beneficial to historical cold countries like Russia and Canada. It’s entirely possible Russia will find itself with a pacific warm water port. Perhaps tons of tundra frost will become fertile farm land. Of course this is at the costs of billions of climate refugees having to migrate as well as a bunch of other side effects

> It’s entirely possible Russia will find itself with a pacific warm water port.

You are 100% right. Yes, some people could believe that huge mistake.

Global effects will still catch them. The atmosphere and the oceans are global systems that don't care about frontiers. Warm oceans in Russia means extra hot waters in the equator belt, that means Hurricanes on steroids. This nice Russian port in Putingrade could be destroyed each year by the extreme weather. And nobody could navigate safely in huge stormy areas of the oceans.

> Perhaps tons of tundra frost will become fertile farm land.

Perhaps we will find that the peat soil starts releasing methane at a level never seen before. And that we enter in an unstoppable cycle of global extinction, just after dismantling science for fun. Weee!. This planet has resorted to that nasty trick a few times before.

Once it starts and self-feeds there is not enough money in the planet to bribe the ecosystems. They will fall until the next stable level of energy available. A level that may grant, or may not grant, minimum conditions for plant survival. Humans can't live without plants.

But a few rich choosen ones will go to Mars, party all night and it will feel like a Tattoine's adolescent dream!

Being rich only works if there are a much bigger amount of people that fix your needs and breeds your food. Money in Mars can't buy you a tuna sandwich when all tunas went extinct. Mars will became a very disappointing place in no time. A place that hates us with passion, with probabilities of survival abysmally lower than the earth. This people will be done the first time that the life-supporting machines will fall. Something that would never happen in the Earth.

The earth? will be fine. Go fast-forward several million years in the future and some organism will be seen traveling in machines fueled with petrol made of human corpses.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#282
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly most universities now have a very strong liberal bias. I think most science departments were left leaning in the 1950s, but it is stronger now. (I think colleges and universities have always been more progressive than the general populous.) The administrations of universities are now very strongly Democrat leaning. I think that Trump just sees a lot of Democrat run institutions and thinks, "Why should the g…

Exactly man exactly, most every professor in the United States hates Donald Trump. 80, 90, 95%+ of professors at about say, 90% of all universities hates Donald Trump and the Republican party and will gladly tell you they do. The thing is, this isn't a new thing, they also hated the last R guy, and the R guy before him, and so on and so forth. What did they expect would happen? Trump to just continue funding these pe…

> What did they expect would happen? Trump to just continue funding these people that hate him?

Never before in my recollection has U.S. national science policy been tied so closely tied to personal fealty to the president. It is alarming that you see nothing wrong with the connecting science funding to political alignment. This is highly aberrant.

In any case, if a majority of academics despise Trump and lean leftward overall, then maybe it would be a moment for self-identifying Republicans to gaze into the mirror and see what might be the reasons for this. As an academic, I have a commitment to the truth. This administration has no such commitment. This has been thoroughly documented.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#283
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that better than the US response? By the time the Royal Commission started, the total amount the Catholic Church in the US had paid out was approaching a billion dollars (back when a billion dollars could buy you instagram). Dioceses have continued to pay since then and many had to file for bankruptcy protection in the US. That seems like a more severe response than a single cardinal getting arrested.

The comment I responded to seemed to imply that the US was hung between two paths and took no action. I'm pleased to hear a response was made and hope Eddy_Viscosity2 sees your comment.

There were consequences, but only eventually as the depravity of what was happening became ever more apparent as the list of victims willing to speak out grew.

But in all the places this was happening, it was an open secret that it was happening for years before any meaningful response occurred. The first victims to speak out were not believed and even punished for how dare they accuse the holy priests of such behavior.

Will we see a similar tipping point for climate change where people on mass begin facing the issue head on? It hasn't happened yet.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It is best to say that it is a religious topic. Everybody has strong opinions about it, but nobody has ever bothered to look into any details of atmosphere physics. Everybody thinks he knows everything about the subject, but nobody ever checked anything. If people go into the details of some absorption spectrum they risk to get cancelled Wat I am just a climate science hobbyist: my graduate work was in another scie…

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Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah most people are normal human beings, im saying the discrimination happens in getting admitted into the program

My 1.8 GPA is literally discriminated-against, too. So unfair!

it's more like skin color, ethnicity, and religion

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this misses the mark. The outrage or sadness is not primarily over "I'm going to lose my job", but the harsh reality that much of your country is not that interested in scientific reality and realizing that your country actually is solidly on the decline. If I had to choose, I'd rather I lost my job for some reason, but my country is passionate about science and curiosity and understanding, compared to living…

Scientific interest didn't magically change the day Trump took office. What did was the economic realities of scientists in the USA. The character of the wheeping and gnashing of teeth from the scientific community took on a new flavor once the bread source appeared in peril.

The anti-science right was a lot easier to ignore when they weren't actually ripping apart the US scientific apparatus, yes. How is that remotely demonstrative of a conspiracy?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#287
post #117

[flagged]

No, this isn't correct. The Scopes Monkey Trial would like a word.

I grew up conservative and evangelical, and there was always an opposition to "liberal science" simply on the basis of what the science presented. It didn't have anything to do with scientists being mean or "biting the hand that feeds" - the opposition was because scientists claimed that man was descended from other apes, that the Earth was billions of years old, that climate change is real and manmade and going to be damaging.

If scientists present information that's uncomfortable for industry or contradicts conservative religious beliefs, conservatives are going to push back against science. That's where the culture war comes from, and there's no way for scientists to avoid it except by abandoning their commitment to evidence and science.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#288
post #16

After the election my very first thought was that this is the start of the Chinese century, since America has voted to step down. Seems to be playing out.

Not to the extent I'd like — it stopped working on Huawei too.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It is best to say that it is a religious topic. Everybody has strong opinions about it, but nobody has ever bothered to look into any details of atmosphere physics. Everybody thinks he knows everything about the subject, but nobody ever checked anything. If people go into the details of some absorption spectrum they risk to get cancelled Wat I am just a climate science hobbyist: my graduate work was in another scie…

[flagged]
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