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AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

charitydotwtf.substack.com

41–50 of 234 posts

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#41
post #8
post #4

Before 2023 I remember everyone here on HN championed that removing lines of code was the strongest senior metric

Simplification is still good. I remember one senior that only removed code when he joined the company I was at until he became a manager!

Ok, I like the idea and support that seniors value simplicity ... but how the hell do you stay employed for even a month (let alone until "manager time") without writing any code?

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#42
post #24

It is now significantly harder to figure out who understands the systems and is using AI effectively and who doesn't know shit and is just slinging LLM copypasta around. Before 2025, the underperformers/coasters were at least relatively identifiable by the paucity of their contributions. Now all of the sudden every single engineer is filing PRs, code reviews, technical design documents, and every other artifact under…

I'm sure this is gated by where you work (especially by how technically savvy your manager is), but the most effective contributors at my job tend to be the ones with near-zero (or sub-zero!) net LoC.

LLMs are prolific and they love to add shit. Truly capable engineers are able to achieve more business outcomes with less code / fewer moving parts.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#43
post #37
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old model couldn't do math, the new one solved a big open problem.

"Open AI claims that its model disproven an Erdős conjecture, therefore my crappy way of arguing about software quality is valid." I really don't know how I'm supposed to reply to stuff like this.

You seem to be saying model capabilities aren't improving. They are. The fact that many mathematicians have looked at the result and confirmed it and solved some other problems with the technique elevates this above claims.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#44
post #24

It is now significantly harder to figure out who understands the systems and is using AI effectively and who doesn't know shit and is just slinging LLM copypasta around. Before 2025, the underperformers/coasters were at least relatively identifiable by the paucity of their contributions. Now all of the sudden every single engineer is filing PRs, code reviews, technical design documents, and every other artifact under…

This game-theory phase seems to go hand-in-hand with totally myopic grift/gig/hustle thinking too. There is no product but the confidence act needed to win each moment.

Chalk up yet another echo of the 1920s Gilded Age? Between all these economic spasms and the simultaneous tilting towards fascism, I think there is way too much historical rhyming going on right now...

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#45
post #24

It is now significantly harder to figure out who understands the systems and is using AI effectively and who doesn't know shit and is just slinging LLM copypasta around. Before 2025, the underperformers/coasters were at least relatively identifiable by the paucity of their contributions. Now all of the sudden every single engineer is filing PRs, code reviews, technical design documents, and every other artifact under…

So, in other words, all the "awesome engineers" can't really tell good code from bad unless it's really obvious? Why should we listen to you about AI code being crap, then? Maybe, in the end, you don't really know. Maybe AI is better at it than you?

[dead]

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#46
post #33

> Those are not code problems. They are evaluation problems. > Code becomes precious when it is the only place knowledge lives. Reading AI code all day is _agonizing_. Just, a horrible way to live, and it melts people's brains at the moment you need them to be the most capable. Manual programming has this really productive and gratifying feedback loop, where you read the code, write the code, and fix it until it comp…

If a coworker dumped a 5k-line code review on you, you'd tell them to come back when it's broken down into smaller, reviewable chunks. Large dumps of code are basically unreviewable by humans, but it seems like a lot of people have forgotten about that when it comes to LLMs.

Breaking up a giant PR can be a tedious, time-consuming hassle, and in the past I could sympathize in practice if someone had a giant PR they didn't have time to decompose once they got it working.

But it's also the exact sort of thing that LLMs are literally perfect for in my experience so there's really no excuse anymore. I've never seen Claude fail to turn a 5k PR into a well-decomposed Graphite stack.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#47
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this article had enough thought put into it. For example: What happened in 2025 was this: the economics of code production were turned upside down. Instead of being very hard, time-consuming, and expensive to generate code, it became effectively free and instant. Lines of code went from being treasured, reused, cared for and carefully curated, to being disposable and regenerable, practically overnight. I…

I think the point is that there are better engineering artifacts to review instead of lines of code. Encoding the decisions, structure, requirements, testing, monitoring, then reviewing those and having AI generate and regenerate code based on them. The code itself doesn't matter if enough thought and rigor has gone into the structure that produces the code. > What does "ideal" mean here? When I was growing up "show…

> They're saying that the mental models and thought processes are incredibly important but that code is not the place for that work to live.

They’re important for discussion and brainstorming. They’re also important for sharing context before reviewing. But code is the only perfect representation in terms of semantics of what the computer will do.

You can have all the diagram and all the proses you want, but they’re still ambiguous.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#48
post #19

I have a doubt that one of Three Virtues of a Programmer, laziness is still considered a virtue on AI coding era. Now that AI coding speed and performance outperformed most of human. But AI still need human to be commanded. Yes, you can let AI agent manage sub-agents but still, human is at the top of manager who order AI what should be written. So human must command and final say on when it's done. Is laziness still…

I'd argue using AI is the epitome of laziness, at least in some sense.

If you buy that, then it follows that the more work you accomplish with AI, the "lazier" of a dev you are.

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#49

I liked this article, and I see a lot of other commenters didn't, so I'll give my take: When starting on a new codebase, how do you make yourself into a helpful contributor as quickly as possible? I go straight for the humans and their human docs. What problem was the system originally built to solve? What was the original design, and what were its biggest problems? Who is currently using it? If you know these, readi…

[deleted]

Re: AI demands more engineering discipline. Not less

#50

I liked this article, and I see a lot of other commenters didn't, so I'll give my take: When starting on a new codebase, how do you make yourself into a helpful contributor as quickly as possible? I go straight for the humans and their human docs. What problem was the system originally built to solve? What was the original design, and what were its biggest problems? Who is currently using it? If you know these, readi…

I wonder if the reception is so variable due to differing exposure to 1) infra as code and 2) engineering teams that don't produce any artifacts outside of their code. > When starting on a new codebase, how do you make yourself into a helpful contributor as quickly as possible? I go straight for the humans and their human docs. What problem was the system originally built to solve? What was the original design, and w…

You guys get tickets that tell you what to do in detail?
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