Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#21

Post by miketery » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:52 PM UTC

9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #6

Google Play has been a huge drag on innovation and security in the mobile ecosystem. I'm actually looking forward to the time when AI kills the mobile app ecosystem so that every phone manufacturer can bundle their own "vibe-code-your-own-app" system with their devices, and the Google Play monopoly is broken.

I don't think that will happen. Sure for a minority of users the same as people running linux for their daily driver, and I definitely support it!

It's possible that we get to a place where everyone cooks their own meal (vibe coded app), and only goes out to eat sometimes (official app store). Spreadsheets are the same, you can get a lot of milage, and most still buy and use closed source software.

Reminds me of this: https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#22

Post by watermelon0 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:52 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #5

warkdarrior wrote: post #2

Answer from VW: > Please note that the use of the Volkswagen app is only supported on iOS devices and Android devices with supported operating system versions. Is it time to mandate app developers support all operating systems for a device?

No. You're not required to use the app. You're not even entitled to use the app. If you want to use the app, you have to play by their rules. Plenty of device manufacturers have chosen to only offer iOS apps. No one talked about mandating that apps were available on competing platforms. If you choose to use something like GrapheneOS, you are signing up for the fact that almost no one will test on your platform and pl…

The issue here is not that they didn't test on alternative distributions of Android, the issue is that they went out of their way to prevent anything but the officially blessed distributions.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#23

Post by AJRF » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back.

  - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene
  - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser
  - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID.

Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't see it hitting more than a few hundred people doing it, but there are likely 100k pixels in the UK, and it's still possible to buy one and put Graphene on it.

The squeeze on the free internet happened so quick by the UK (well it took years of indifference and a failure to enshrine protections - but once they started moving the did so super fast)

Realistically we're speed running ID being tied to internet usage - create your escape hatch while you can!

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#24

Post by doublerabbit » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #6

Google Play has been a huge drag on innovation and security in the mobile ecosystem. I'm actually looking forward to the time when AI kills the mobile app ecosystem so that every phone manufacturer can bundle their own "vibe-code-your-own-app" system with their devices, and the Google Play monopoly is broken.

Let's rewind 15 years ago when everyone was jumping and praising mobile Eco-systems. Did no one ever see this happening or were most too gullible with Facebook hugs and pokes

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#25

Post by binary132 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #10

mohamedkoubaa wrote: post #4

The solution is not to try to shame or force Volkswagen to support GrapheneOS, the solution is to (legally) force them to allow the car to run a custom CarOS, for which the community can write their own app

That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good i…

“Users shouldn’t be same to control their own engines actually” hmm well ok then

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#26

Post by microtonal » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #5

warkdarrior wrote: post #2

Answer from VW: > Please note that the use of the Volkswagen app is only supported on iOS devices and Android devices with supported operating system versions. Is it time to mandate app developers support all operating systems for a device?

No. You're not required to use the app. You're not even entitled to use the app. If you want to use the app, you have to play by their rules. Plenty of device manufacturers have chosen to only offer iOS apps. No one talked about mandating that apps were available on competing platforms. If you choose to use something like GrapheneOS, you are signing up for the fact that almost no one will test on your platform and pl…

The app worked until a few weeks ago. GrapheneOS does not miss any functionality (nor security) for the app to work. The only change is that they started blocking non-GMS Android through the thoroughly anti-competitive Play Integrity.

Hypothetically, if GrapheneOS wanted to become a certified Android, it would probably not be blocked on technical reasons, only that becoming certified (last time a contract was leaked) requires running privileged Google Play Services (which is less secure) and pre-installing a bunch of Google apps that should not be uninstallable.

How is that not anti-competitive?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#27

Post by callc » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #9

mohamedkoubaa wrote: post #4

The solution is not to try to shame or force Volkswagen to support GrapheneOS, the solution is to (legally) force them to allow the car to run a custom CarOS, for which the community can write their own app

Why should they ?! Do you also want to force them to design their cars so the engine is easily replaceable by a Custom Engine OS so that the community can build their own engines ?!?

Because laws are (mostly) a reflection of what society wants.

People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies.

Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades).

Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#28

Post by arkon_hn » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:54 PM UTC

queeshonda wrote: post #8

[dead]

Supporting mainstream OEM variants can already be enough of a nightmare in behavioural differences. What motivation do most companies have to support Graphene, which will be a handful of customers at best? Developers may be fine with offering a best effort support model, but legal certainly wouldn't.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#29

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:55 PM UTC

dada216 wrote: post #17

Arainach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good i…

Those two set of systems are separate and very distinct.

They're not. Use any car's heads up display and you can configure an enormous number of things. Even if there was somehow a pure separation, things such as "playing video while the car is moving" are regulated in many jurisdictions and would land firmly in the "UI" layer.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#30

Post by juliangmp » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 3:57 PM UTC

dada216 wrote: post #17

Arainach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good i…

Those two set of systems are separate and very distinct.

You'd hope so but I fear that many safety critical aspects run on the same system as the infotainment system... And that's a perfect excuse for manufacturers to keep these things completely closed