Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#31

Post by novalis » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 7:54 AM UTC

tomasien wrote: post #23

novalis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please provide some hard numerical reference that shows that "almost all the developers" that produced "the most popular apps on Android and iOS are running OS X". That would be a great cross referenced treasure trove of data. It seems absurd and borderline illogical that one does not come to have contact with such a fountain of proof that supports the stated inference. This would be an invaluable source. T…

I'm not saying that asking for hard proof is ever a bad thing, but I will say that it's not illogical to make this claim without. Anecdotally, I know exactly 1 programmer TOTAL that does not use a mac laptop when they develop out of the dozens that I know, and he just got hired at Microsoft. I know several that use Windows desktops, but exactly 1 that doesn't have a mac laptop.

Small detour; logic is a funny thing because it can be countered by insufficient measures of extent and intent even when it is expressed in the form of presentable proof. So assuming a counter point of view would also be acceptable by your own process of reasoning if an anedoctal could express it. That tells me you recognize your own confirmation bias and so should I recognize mine.

Had the poster said "the majority" instead of "almost all" it would have been much more agreeable to my own impression and my own limited anedoctal experience wich makes up the extent.

But I do take your response in the same good candid nature that you meant it. Still, a cross referenced data set on this you proposed would be amazing.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#32

Post by KeyBoardG » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 7:55 AM UTC

shuw wrote: post #9

To add some context to the title, this isn't a traditional IDE in the browser. It's a kind of experimental touch-centric IDE with it's own semi-visual programming language (your not exactly dragging boxes around, but your not editing text either). I only played with it for 2 minutes, but it's apparent that this is a "research" project. It's not meant as a replacement SDK for whatever is the de facto standard for Win8…

Yep, this started as an app on WP7 from MSR. You could download and share various scripts/apps. The app was a little clunky but neat.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#33

Post by amima » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 8:17 AM UTC

nikolaitillmann wrote: post #28

amima wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely need some js error tracking tool (like qbaka.net) to handle errors. Their main javascript size is 420K!

Thanks for the recommendation. We (I am in the TouchDevelop team) have an excellent crash tracking system in place, and whatever issues you see today might be fixed tomorrow. If you are curious how we build TouchDevelop, you can watch this video from a session at the recent Build conference: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-018

Thank you for the link. I am curious and will try to find an hour to watch the video. Do you mind if I contact you by email (already googled it) to ask some questions about your error tracking? It seems that you do not use window.onerror so I wonder how exactly you track unhandled errors. Your experience may help me with my project.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#34

Post by undergroundhero » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 8:32 AM UTC

twog wrote: post #5

In order for Windows 8 to be a success from an app development standpoint, MSFT needs to make their apps the easiest to develop. Their SDK must be the best. They should have starter projects, and go crazy on supplying developer resources & starter apps. They need to make apples development & submission process look and feel outdated. Windows is and will remain a huge OS with a ton of opportunity, but MSFT needs to do…

I enjoy the aesthetic of Windows 8 and was really excited to start messing around with app development as a new hobby project. The WinRT API, though... it's very bare.

Perhaps I was naive thinking the WinRT API would be similar to .NET, but Microsoft could have made it much, much simpler for current .NET developers to start working with WinRT.

My biggest gripe is that WinRT seems to be 100% focused on mobile/tablet platforms. My laptop has Windows 8 and I spend all of my time in the desktop, away from apps. Why? Because there's a lack of "real" applications in the Windows 8 Store. Writing system utilities for a more technical audience is almost impossible. They replaced the excellent System.IO namespace with the Windows.Storage namespace, which doesn't give you access to much of the computer's actual storage [1].

Hopefully I'm wrong and someone posts a reply with an easy way to search through the computer's files and folders, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/windows...

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#35

Post by ryanglasgow » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 8:42 AM UTC

cheeaun wrote: post #11

So I signed in, going to change my username and it says 'nickname is too short' (at least 8 characters). I uploaded my avatar image, it says 'Only proper JPEG files allowed' :(

If this was a social network, I'd understand your frustration. It's a developer tool tho — not sure what you expect.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#36

Post by nikolaitillmann » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 8:50 AM UTC

amima wrote: post #33

nikolaitillmann wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the recommendation. We (I am in the TouchDevelop team) have an excellent crash tracking system in place, and whatever issues you see today might be fixed tomorrow. If you are curious how we build TouchDevelop, you can watch this video from a session at the recent Build conference: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-018

Thank you for the link. I am curious and will try to find an hour to watch the video. Do you mind if I contact you by email (already googled it) to ask some questions about your error tracking? It seems that you do not use window.onerror so I wonder how exactly you track unhandled errors. Your experience may help me with my project.

Sure, send me an email. We might be missing out on some errors, appreciate any kind of feedback, and maybe can give some advice too.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#37

Post by michaelpinto » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 9:11 AM UTC

DigitalSea wrote: post #24

BOOM. It's moves like this that are going to ensure that Windows 8 prevails in the end. I hate to make the comparison, but Microsoft's only competitor is Apple and now that Jonny Ive is helping out with the design aspects of not just the products but interfaces, Microsoft have forced Apple's hand so-to-speak. I doubt we'll be seeing Apple make a web-based touch interface for building applications, but it'll no doubt…

Microsoft's competition isn't just Apple, in fact I would say that their real competition is Google/Samsung which seems to be replacing what was Microsoft/Intel.

Also while easy to make apps is a great idea, sadly it may not be a game changer. If you look back at HyperCard it was a cool product, but it didn't save Apple from almost going under by the mid-90s.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#38

Post by moconnor » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 9:33 AM UTC

This is very impressive.

I got further with this in fifteen minutes on my iPhone lying in bed than an hour last night with the Windows Phone 8 SDK.

The APIs seem nicely designed and the interface works surprisingly well on a phone. I haven't seen anything else as likely to democratize programming since Click 'n Play back in the 90s.

It would be nice to see some kind of automatic wrapper facility for the full API, even if the syntax became necessarily horrible and it was hidden behind an expert panel. Sooner or later every large project will want to step beyond the bounds of the current garden, I think.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#39

Post by sturadnidge » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 9:41 AM UTC

Still, I wouldn't say this http://imgur.com/pUlXu is the best way to drive adoption amongst the Microsoft faithful. Yes I know they need to draw the line somewhere, and IE9 (maybe IE anything... haven't tried 10) sucks, but this is quite a departure from the general Windows stance of "backwards compatibility at all costs" (why their hosts file still lives in an 'etc' directory is beyond me, for example).

Additionally, if you have cookies disabled it just sits there on the loading screen (in FF 17 at least) - I thought it was just broken at first.

Re: Microsoft releases tool for creating Windows 8 apps in the browser

#40

Post by sturadnidge » Sat, Dec 01, 2012, 9:42 AM UTC

cageface wrote: post #26

nemoto wrote: post #21

TouchDevelop Wep App Preview does not work with Opera. Please use Internet Explorer 10, Chrome or Firefox. Why?

There's always a post like this. Who gives a shit about Opera at this point? It's hard enough making a complex web app work on IE, Chrome and Firefox as it is.

Perhaps more pertinently, then http://imgur.com/pUlXu