This was a very well written piece that contains just the right amount of context to understand how to place the concept, an easily digestible length, and a sort of to the point whimsy that's not overbearing. Saving this as a reference for writing style!
But yak shaving is fun (2019)
71–80 of 100 posts
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#72This feels like what is really splitting the programming community right now- those that have typically enjoyed the journey, and those that just want to be at the destination as soon as possible.
They are different things. There are projects where I deeply care about the code, and projects where I deeply care about the end result. And a whole lot in between, or that are entirely throwaway. But I use AI also for some of the ones where I deeply care about the code, now. E.g. my terminal is in Ruby, and it worked well enough, but over the last couple of days I had Claude put together a test harness and burn down…
This was well put. Some things I just want done because I need to use them now. Some things I want to take my time because it's an opportunity for me to expand my knowledge graph and/or something I want to be durable (so it can't be slopped up).
Sometimes one turns into the other. For instance I started building an agent based wiki generator fully vibed. I just wanted to test out if it was possible to mostly automate information extraction and conceptualization. Tried three times before realizing that the path I was attempting to travel was just not going to get me the results I wanted (fully automated meant I was not reflected in the wiki). So I finally started more carefully vibing out an application that implemented some of what I learned would be useful, at the same time I was developing a structurally similar app for local dev harnessing. Realizing that they had a lot in common, I started yak shaving and focused on building a framework that would make it much easier to whip up these types of agent based apps. This is the thing I started from the ground up building much more intentionally and thoroughly.
AI is used all throughout, but the amount of leash differed from holding without looking to wrapped around my wrist twice I'm basically holding the collar at this point.
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#73Sometimes I think yak shaving is mostly just ADHD I self delude into being productivity.
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#74I always liked yak shaving, but avoided it because I knew it came with costs and tradeoffs. More recently, with the help of AI, I’ve been doing lots of it, as the costs and tradeoffs have greatly diminished. In fact, I’ve learned that building my own tools and frameworks, when done properly, comes with huge performance benefits and helps me understand the problems I’m trying to solve much more deeply. There has never…
Downside: Code is not mature; can have edge cases, bugs and security issues. Likely limited config options without hardcoding features Upside: Only the features you actually need. Likely fewer dependencies. You know exactly what your yak looks like under the fur.
the downside is mitigated by the amount of yak shaving you do. see?
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wanted it to have a console (like Quake) Hah! I couldn't figure out the 3D math for quake, or write a fast texture mapper, so I stuck to working on things like Doom level editors. But, I loved the quake console so I made a similar thing for my editor, basically just a hot key that swung it down and I could change a few hard-coded variables and added some commands like loading/saving files.
Thanks to the flexibility that Quake console provided, we were able to set up a three computer null-modem cable network using an additional serial port card on one computer, and play Quake multiplayer like that. We’d felt like we’d hacked the planet at the time.
We did that too, except it was for playing OMF2097, because sharing a keyboard sucked (and we'd always fight over who'd get to use the right side of the keyboard, which was obviously the best side in those days).
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#76Especially in homelab context.
> I could just use kubernetes
…billion years later still nothing operational
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#77Often, the experience is of initially trying to avoid shaving the yak, but finding all of the available alternatives are unusable or unsatisfactory for some reason or other.
So yes, you shave the yak, but at least the clippings are precisely the length and colour you need, and the yak’s resulting hairstyle is pleasing to your eye.
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#78When I was in highschool I started writing a game in Qbasic. Along the way, I wanted it to have a console (like Quake) where you could enter commands and modify the game as you were running it. This lead me to create a scripting engine in Qbasic, and long story short, I’ve been on a yak shaving epic quest now for almost 30 years now. No game, but I have a hybrid C / Lua game engine/general purpose application platfor…
> I wanted it to have a console (like Quake) Hah! I couldn't figure out the 3D math for quake, or write a fast texture mapper, so I stuck to working on things like Doom level editors. But, I loved the quake console so I made a similar thing for my editor, basically just a hot key that swung it down and I could change a few hard-coded variables and added some commands like loading/saving files.
I've been using quake-style terminals for... pretty much as long as I've been using terminals so about 15 years now and I can never go back. Sometimes I open a new terminal window to e.g. run my application but I always forget it exists.
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#79When I was in highschool I started writing a game in Qbasic. Along the way, I wanted it to have a console (like Quake) where you could enter commands and modify the game as you were running it. This lead me to create a scripting engine in Qbasic, and long story short, I’ve been on a yak shaving epic quest now for almost 30 years now. No game, but I have a hybrid C / Lua game engine/general purpose application platfor…
I like electronic music production and mixing, and at some point embarked on the quests of writing a DAW (for which I wrote my own state library too) and a dj application. The DJ application I started this year, the daw has been going on for 5 years now.
I think it's helped me at work. Even though I don't have a job with anything related to music or audio, getting in the weeds of building a complex app like this has a way of teaching you all sorts of things. But even if it weren't, it's fun! When work is stressing, for some reason I find coding something completely unrelated, fun and fully my own de-stressing too.
I find you working 30 years on this game engine/application platform very cool and admirable! I hope this or some other project of mine accompanies me for that long.
Re: But yak shaving is fun (2019)
#80I agree 100% that yak shaving is fun.
That said, I've seen so many developers, especially indie game developers, waste their time yak shaving (having fun) and then running out of funds and having to give up their dream because instead of achieving their goal,ship an indie game and have income for the next one, they shaved yaks work on a custom game engine or custom UI system or some other thing that's a solved problem and not the actual goal.
I have a friend doing it now. I know he's having fun so I don't want to tell him to stop. But I also know he'll likely hit a point where he needs to take a job and give up his dream because he's not actually pursuing it, it's having too much fun yak shaving.