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Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

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Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#341
post #205
post #100

I do think you have to admire how almost comically insane Zuckerberg is to do stuff like this. If Facebook was being run by someone normal what would happen is it would spend the next 20 years pissing away everything slowly as social media advertising became less and less relevant. But not with Zuckerberg at the helm. He will burn that place to the ground trying to find some way to remain important. Its surprising th…

Their advertising revenue grew 33% YoY last earnings call. They're literally making so much money they don't know what to do with it so they plow it into each new fad as to not miss out if this one happens to be a new billion user business. This is in addition to returning capital to shareholders via buybacks and dividends.

To be fair they’re doing it by increasingly immoral, unethical, and potentially illegal methods resulting in at this point over 300 lost lawsuits, regulatory scrutiny world wide, blowback over intentionally enabling scams and fraud for profit, enabling csam, trafficking, etc as long as they pay their ads bills.

It’s a matter of time before the regulatory hammer falls on them and they’re hemmed in via civil courts due to damages. Many of the civil suits they’re losing are petty weak cases showing juries and judges literally hate meta. These are signs that their revenues are short term money grabs due to blindly chasing iRev at the cost of literally everything else.

Even hacking they only really follow through on if their large business credit extensions are at risk or chargebacks. Debit and direct funding isn’t pursued because they’re not loss liable - if it’s literal theft via debit cards, it’s not a priority. If it’s their own money via credit that’s refundable, they’re all hands on deck.

This will all blow back on them at some point and that point isn’t far aware. Courts, governments, banks, they’re all starting to notice the lawlessness and pure avarice. The consequences will severely impair their ads business, require them to undergo worse consent, oversight, and audit that waving an AI hand at won’t be sufficient, especially when the courts are concerned as judges are especially skeptical of AI solutions to court orders.

Their only out is to find another business model, which they’ve been trying to do without success since Facebook was first launched.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but your rant comes from a place of naive privilege when you assume meta engineers all had options. I know a number of people that accepted roles with companies they vowed never to work for after being laid off and unemployed for a year. The reality is that when you look at tech in abroad context, there really are very few ethical and/or noble companies.

There are plenty of options. I for example am one of those unemployed engineers that has been looking for a job for about a year now. Meta recruiters have came to me trying to poach me, and I've said no every time. The reality is that more engineers need to be able to grow a spine, have longer term thinking and actually stand their ground when it comes to these companies. You could not pay me enough money to work at…

Easy to say, harder to stand behind when you’re savings are depleted, you have a mortgage and a family to care for, and maybe you’re on a work visa about to be kicked out of the only country your kids have ever known only to return to a country they don’t even speak the language of.

I don’t disagree that there are many evil companies and one should try to be selective in who they work for. But life, in my experience, exists in shades of gray and it’s foolish to judge others without understanding their circumstances and the path that lead them to where they are today.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#343
post #332

I live in $MAJOR_CITY, and Meta is a not a viable workplace for serious engineers anymore. The short term pay for the lunacy of working there is not a sensible trade-off for decent engineers. Aside from having the sword of Damocles over you at all times because Zuck has lost his mind, there is a sense he has had 1 too many failures after Metaverse and they are seriously floundering in AI, and their core products (Ad…

In their defense (haha), virtually all the ad management platforms for social and search are total dogshit. Like seriously, some of the worst software I’ve used. Constantly broken, incredibly poor UI / UX, slow, frequently burns money for no reason, ads just mysteriously stop working, etc, etc. Meta, Google, LinkedIn, Reddit, Twitter, they’re all like this. They don’t give a shit about the advertiser experience and it shows.

But I put up with it, just like everyone else, because it’s still amazing ROI when you get it working right. And there’s no other choice if you want access to these platforms with billions of potential customers.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#344
post #60
post #4

> 30-50% of engineers on core teams have been forcefully reassigned to data labeling and RLHF, upsetting folks even more. This really doesn't sound believable to me, but who knows with all the craziness going on. Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. And the percentage sounds very high, unless "core teams" is only a small subset of the total…

> Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. Zuck basically went to a town hall and explained to his employees that their remaining value to him is as training mules for his AI.

It seems really dumb to tell them that. I assume they’re all feeding garbage to the models now.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you get a FAANG job you need to think like a professional athlete. S This is what Netflix has always been advocating for. Reid Hoffman also wrote the book The Alliance, in which he argues that employees and employers are allies. When they are aligned, they work together. When not, they part ways. I find that these two views are realistic and we can use them to guide our actions.

> This is what Netflix has always been advocating for. Reid Hoffman also wrote the book The Alliance I think you might have Reid Hoffman (founder of LinkedIn) mixed up with Reed Hastings (founder of Netflix). :)

I just realized that Netflix’s Reed Hastings is the same Reed Hastings that wrote Purify - the excellent memory leak tool that was a pretty big deal back in the 90’s.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#346
post #212

Meta laid off around 2,000 employees this year and in April they announced a further 10% planned cut in their workforce [0]. Employees were told to work from home and were sent emails at 4AM informing them they've been let go. Those that weren't impacted have software on their computer that tracks their every move. Remaining employees can now opt out of being tracked at work for half an hour [1]. Meanwhile, @Meta is…

> Why are you still working there?

Probably for the same reasons you go to work everyday.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id honestly wager that at you and most of the people who are agreeing with you in the comments don't make the meta SDE salary, and if offered the 300k/year positions at Meta, even for a limited time, you would absolutely take it And you would be stupid not to. One one hand, you can be that guy that says you declined a Meta job, and be stuck at your current salary level, watching people make more money around you, and…

I work at a frontier lab and have rejected Meta interviews (for much higher salary) many times over the years. And BMW meetups are not good ways to meet high-salary people. Likely the exact opposite.

> I work at a frontier lab and have rejected Meta interviews (for much higher salary) many times over the years

Good for you, but this is not the counter example to the wager that the parent proposed. It would be "I worked for a no-name company in a developing country and still turned down interviews from Meta".

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience at Google, they were so convinced they were the only good engineering company in the world and had to protect themselves from all the wrong-thinkers outside and yet the only progress they made was via acquisitions.

You'd say that Google Maps hasn't improved much in the last 20 years?

Not relative to its available resources. For example, there's still no option to penalize intersections. I'm still getting absurd side-street routes and unprotected lefts/crossings to save 1 minute on a 20-minute trip.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#349
post #9

[flagged]

Ya god forbid people want to have careers at leading tech companies so they can have a more abundant life built by their skillsets and discipline. We cant all work in the forest like you. you realize that the majority of engineering positions at meta in fact arent dealing with the knobs and levers of manipulation? do you have no pity for the coal plant worker who supports his family while working for a company that p…

Yeah, I just made the heating elements for the ovens, not the doors!

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what Netflix has always been advocating for. Reid Hoffman also wrote the book The Alliance I think you might have Reid Hoffman (founder of LinkedIn) mixed up with Reed Hastings (founder of Netflix). :)

My bad. I was talking about both. The Netflix culture, and the book written by Hoffman. Hopefully I spelled their names right.

Oh! You did. I just saw the two in adjacent sentences and assumed you were referring to the Netflix CEO and had mixed up his name.

Nothing to see here, move along...

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