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Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

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Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#311

Post by daedrdev »

JacobAsmuth wrote: post #289
svachalek wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience at Google, they were so convinced they were the only good engineering company in the world and had to protect themselves from all the wrong-thinkers outside and yet the only progress they made was via acquisitions.

You'd say that Google Maps hasn't improved much in the last 20 years?

Google has said to turn right at an intersection where you are turning left for years because it doesn't know about a T shaped intersection that tens of thousands use a day.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#312

Post by VirusNewbie »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #64
chvid wrote: post #62

Facebook and Instagram are such strong businesses that they could completely stop development work and the businesses would still be unbeatable monopolies for years to come. But what I don’t understand is how screen recording / keyboard recording is useful AI training data? It seems like a lot cost and a lot of pissing off people for something that is actually not very valuable.

One thing I've learned over my career is that engineering seems to matter so little to a business's success. As long as the engineering problems and failures aren't so bad that the salesfolks will get crucified in the town square and convince customers to leave, then seemingly everything can eventually be duct-taped over. Obviously this isn't as true for things where it truly matters - encryption software, financial…

>One thing I've learned over my career is that engineering seems to matter so little to a business's success

So, let's see, the top tech companies in revenue are Google, Apple, Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, and some of the fastest growing ones are OpenAI and Anthropic.

Do you know what all these have in common? They give extremely high compensation even compared to other large companies (microsoft is a bit of an exception here).

So you think they just do this out of the goodness of their hearts, that these kind CEOs who would lay off tons of people on a whim, don't think engineering matters, but are paying 300k, 400k, 600k, 800k to software engineers?

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#313

Post by VirusNewbie »

compiler-guy wrote: post #293
throwarayes wrote: post #118

If you get a FAANG job you need to think like a professional athlete. Save most of what you make. Assume it’s not going to last. Do NOT have an expectation that this is “normal” income. You’ll probably end up destroying your integrity or doing tons of BS work just to do anything to maintain that level of income. Expect the norm to be a startup, non tech company, or some other non FAANG big tech corp.

This really isn't true. I'm nothing special and have survived in the FAANG world for going on two decades. Excepting the very new in their careers, nearly everyone on my team has managed good length careers at the various FANNGS, possibly with stops at smaller companies. It was the startups prior to those that were terribly unstable and where you couldn't be sure your badge would open the door when you came to work.…

Pretty sure you can look at the median tenure and it's not long at most FAANGs. Most people who work there do not make it long. There are plenty who are there that do, but that's survivorship bias.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#314

Post by bcatanzaro »

"A founder-engineer driven company. Facebook is one of the few Big Tech firms whose founder is an engineer, and still is the CEO. Netflix is the other one where founder and co-CEO Reed Hastings was also a software engineer before starting the company. Amazon was the other example of this until recently, but it’s not the case at Google or Apple."

So funny how people overlook Jensen Huang repeatedly. As if NVIDIA wasn't big tech, or Jensen wasn't a founder, or an engineer...

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#315

Post by mlsu »

torben-friis wrote: post #283
throw-the-towel wrote: post #257

I think the gloating in this thread is very misguided. Meta is evil, sure, but that's not the point. The point is that this kind of AI psychosis might be the new normal for our industry, or at least one of the new normals. My last workplace absolutely did a jump in toxicity when the CEO got obsessed with AI, instituted token leaderboards, told us all to drop all non-AI work for a time, etc. We were no Meta.

I think it's just one more show of how addicted to the algorithm people are. The difference here is that this particular wave of propaganda hits people whose actions have deep effects on their industries, so their unreasonable actions are far more visible.

I haven't seen anyone really talking about this, but we've seen many very public and powerful people have what is objectively a psychotic break, due to the content algorithm, AI, or both.

We already know what the algorithm does to normal people - it should be treated like a radioactive object by anyone in charge of anything. Very powerful and strictly used judiciously and in small doses. Instead we've got some of the most powerful people on earth just cooking their brains on this shit just like anyone else watching reels on the bus.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#316

Post by Godelization »

swatcoder wrote: post #142
lelanthran wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You undoubtedly had other options, yet you chose to work for one of the most well-documented do-bad-for-the-world organizations on the planet. One day, when there is no job for you, you will look back on this moment and chide your past self. There is no organisation that has their hands clean. Not even the one you work for.

Regardless of what their hiring process screens for, it's safe to say that people able to pass screening for Meta are able to get work elsewhere. It is never an engineers only option, although it may be the only one in a certain luxurious compensation tier. And while it's true that many organizations carry dirty laundry, especially as they scale into larger organizations with fingers in more pies, Meta's business mod…

You might be surprised. I sent out approximately 1200 applications in 2024 while unemployed for nine months, and with over thirty interviews, I only got a single offer, which was Meta.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#317

Post by jcgrillo »

dlev_pika wrote: post #297
throw-the-towel wrote: post #257

I think the gloating in this thread is very misguided. Meta is evil, sure, but that's not the point. The point is that this kind of AI psychosis might be the new normal for our industry, or at least one of the new normals. My last workplace absolutely did a jump in toxicity when the CEO got obsessed with AI, instituted token leaderboards, told us all to drop all non-AI work for a time, etc. We were no Meta.

The irony is that I’d totally test out replacing the CEO with AI - best bang for buck by a million miles

But then we wouldn't have had the metaverse, that was a barrel of laughs.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#318

Post by monkpit »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #307
dlev_pika wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that I’d totally test out replacing the CEO with AI - best bang for buck by a million miles

Me too. I bet AIs could run a company much better than all of those lavishly paid CEOs. Can't wait for Cyberpunk's Delamain to become a reality.

Who controls the prompt? Shareholders? And how do you have confidence that the prompt is being used? Just thinking out loud, it’s an interesting idea (even if it might be terrible and dystopian).

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#319

Post by saltcured »

ElectricalTears wrote: post #298
JacobAsmuth wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd say that Google Maps hasn't improved much in the last 20 years?

Maps thinks it's fine to do a u-turn on the Sydney harbour bridge.

I wonder if it ever does that for the SF Bay Bridge.

"Perform Immelmann turn in 200 feet"

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#320

Post by slibhb »

ben_w wrote: post #265
slibhb wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very fashionable for Westerners to evince belief in the idea that inhabitants of third-world countries have no free will and aren't responsible for their actions. We're told that everything bad that happens in those countries is due to large Western companies or a history of colonization. This is all very silly. The genocide in Myanmar (it's a civil war last I checked) isn't Facebook's fault (legally or morally)…

You're still shadow-boxing with what you want me to have written, not what I actually wrote.

I reread your posts, and no. You seem unaware of what your posts imply about the agency of certain groups of human beings.
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