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Never talk to the police

campolalaw.com

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Re: Never talk to the police

#131

Post by nobody9999 »

onraglanroad wrote: post #125
hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S. that applies to criminal defendants, not to people who witnessed a crime and aren't being charged with anything at the moment.

Oh right. I'm entitled to a lawyer if I'm ever taken in for questioning. I didn't realise it was so different. Can the police just question you and you have no right to legal representation?

>Oh right. I'm entitled to a lawyer if I'm ever taken in for questioning. I didn't realise it was so different.

>Can the police just question you and you have no right to legal representation?

No. You always have the right to legal representation -- at your own expense and, in criminal cases, depending on your financial situation, a court-appointed attorney. In many places, the state will only provide an attorney if you're indigent -- and can prove it.

The Miranda Warning[0] (not Miranda "Rights") is generally required if you're being arrested and/or detained for "questioning."

However. the rights mentioned in those warnings (right to remain silent, right to an attorney, etc.) don't magically appear when the warnings are given. They apply regardless of whether or not the warnings are given -- whether you're a suspect, a witness or the object of a police officer's lustful desires, etc.

What's more, the police are legally allowed to lie to you (e.g., "we have your fingerprints on the murder weapon." to get you to waive your rights).

As I understand the primary change over the past 20 years or so is that if you don't positively, verbally/in writing unequivocally invoke your rights to remain silent and have an attorney present, the police may ignore less unequivocal assertions.

N.B. IANAL.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

Re: Never talk to the police

#132

Post by nobody9999 »

onraglanroad wrote: post #126
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm not a suspect? No, I don't think that I do.

That's the bit that sounds odd. Surely they can't just claim you're not a suspect yet and therefore deny you a lawyer?

>That's the bit that sounds odd. Surely they can't just claim you're not a suspect yet and therefore deny you a lawyer?

IIUC, In a non-custodial situation, they are not required to provide the Miranda Warning[0]. However, the rights mentioned in that warning exist and are in force regardless of your status (custodial/non-custodial). One may invoke them at any time. I recommend doing so loudly if you're within two or three meters of law enforcement.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

Re: Never talk to the police

#133

Post by nobody9999 »

thayne wrote: post #54
digitalPhonix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article (and any similar advice) is that 4 is not possible

It absolutely is. In theory, staying silent or getting a lawyer shouldn't hurt you in court. But it could lead to the police focusing their investigation on you and/or making your life difficult.

>It absolutely is. In theory, staying silent or getting a lawyer shouldn't hurt you in court. But it could lead to the police focusing their investigation on you and/or making your life difficult.

This is addressed explicitly and at length in the video linked in TFA.

Re: Never talk to the police

#134

Post by nobody9999 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #110
buellerbueller wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make up a ton of hypotheticals to support your point, versus a lawyer and a retired detective (video in the link) who tell you explicitly to never talk to cops .

Neither of whom are disinterested. The lawyer wants you to hire him to talk to the cops for you, and the retired cop is earning money by giving his "don't talk to the cops" speeches.

>and the retired cop is earning money by giving his "don't talk to the cops" speeches.

Actually, the "retired cop" (he was not retired at the time of the video) was also a law student taking part in the law school lecture at the law school he was attending.

Re: Never talk to the police

#135

Post by nobody9999 »

bloppe wrote: post #2

I suppose a grain of salt has to be taken for the fact that this is basically an ad

You can go find the linked video[0] which long pre-dates any advertisement around it.

In fact, the video is 14 years old and doesn't have anyone[1] from the law firm that linked to it in the video.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Duane

Re: Never talk to the police

#136

Post by AnimalMuppet »

onraglanroad wrote: post #126
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm not a suspect? No, I don't think that I do.

That's the bit that sounds odd. Surely they can't just claim you're not a suspect yet and therefore deny you a lawyer?

Deny me one? No. (I mean, they may try...)

What I meant, though, is that if I'm not a suspect, they don't have to provide me a lawyer. (At least, I'm moderately sure that's the law.)

Re: Never talk to the police

#137

Post by jst1fthsdys »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #83

The type of person who gets themselves in a situation where they can become a suspect is one that I can't see getting into. It makes me question what the person did to have this happen to them. I lead a normal life. I've never gotten into a situation where this could ever possibly concern me. I'm betting the vast majority of people who visit HN (and aren't commenting here) wouldn't have this issue, either. I do not f…

> I lead a normal life. > At my business

You don't know what normal life is in the US.

> they discovered my back door open and, within minutes, caught the person who stole something.

Plenty of people can tell you about the cops never bothering to show up to a call, or showing up hours later and shrugging. The fact that this supposedly happened to you is the outlier.

Re: Never talk to the police

#138

Post by apothegm »

Spooky23 wrote: post #35
Brendinooo wrote: post #12

>that means one of two things: 1) You are a suspect; 2) You are a possible suspect. While I suppose this is strictly true, the far more likely option for 2 is that you're a witness to the crime and you can therefore help that crime be solved. So, in a situation where I am approached by the police to answer questions about something I know I didn't do: 1. I talk, and it helps the police solve a case 2. I talk, and it…

4 doesn't really happen, unless you're a mandated reporter and don't report child abuse. I used to have to testify in civil and criminal proceedings a few times a year as part of my job. If you aren't trained to talk to police or adversarial attorneys, don't. The magic is essentially talk to them like you would a call center agent. One topic per interaction. Use simple language. Answer a question directly. "He went t…

“Irish goodbye”?

Re: Never talk to the police

#139

Post by assimpleaspossi »

jst1fthsdys wrote: post #137
assimpleaspossi wrote: post #83

The type of person who gets themselves in a situation where they can become a suspect is one that I can't see getting into. It makes me question what the person did to have this happen to them. I lead a normal life. I've never gotten into a situation where this could ever possibly concern me. I'm betting the vast majority of people who visit HN (and aren't commenting here) wouldn't have this issue, either. I do not f…

> I lead a normal life. > At my business You don't know what normal life is in the US. > they discovered my back door open and, within minutes, caught the person who stole something. Plenty of people can tell you about the cops never bothering to show up to a call, or showing up hours later and shrugging. The fact that this supposedly happened to you is the outlier.

I live in the US and I'm older than you (I'd bet) and have far more experiences than you.

How many is "plenty of people" and what percent versus those of us who get results in minutes.

I am NOT the outlier. My stories are the stories of my neighbors and everyone I know. My stories are from what's in front of me and not random, anonymous internet posts.

Re: Never talk to the police

#140

Post by mplanchard »

iwhalen wrote: post #114

A lot of discussion in this thread about traffic stops. James Duane (the law professor from the video in the blog) himself makes a qualifier about traffic stops: https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?si=bL_1vR0xFKQqkmC5&t=505

Thanks for the link to this! The whole talk is a great follow up to the original, and convinced me to buy his book
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