Please remember that the lines from HH to SF are the same ones that caused wildfires in CA over the last 10 years. So if SF owns the line, they own that liability too. And a single fire's cost is about 3x the yearly budget of SF.
San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
51–60 of 92 posts
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem in California is not generation nor is it reliability. CAISO has the lowest wholesale electricity costs in the nation, by far; under half the cost of Texas. It also hasn't had a blackout since 2020. The problem is retail side. AKA PG&E, its regulation, governance and forced liabilities. https://cleantechnica.com/2026/05/30/california-lowest-whole...
> CAISO has the lowest wholesale electricity costs in the nation, by far Much lower than that provided by the TVA? Ages ago, I used to live in an area served by the TVA, and its power prices were notably cheaper than anywhere else. I'd heard that this was because a huge chunk of its power was provided by fission plants, but never investigated.
Yes, CAISO wholesale rates are much lower, but California also has the highest retail cost in the continental US, at over 28c/kWh. If any customer in the TVA paid that much for power there'd be riots.
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other angle that people may not realize is that SF has voted in nine separate elections to not establish a municipal utility. The people of SF demonstrably do not want to take over PG&E, given numerous opportunities. SMUD has cheap power because 100 years ago the people of Sacramento invested a lot of money to establish that utility. What the vocal minority of SF public power people want is magical: cheaper rates…
> people of SF demonstrably do not want to take over PG&E But PG&E has charged significantly more for power the last few years. Most people easily hit 50c/kwh on their bills. Compare to Santa Clara, which has their own well run utility, and charges less than half PG&E rates. https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/residents/rates-and-fees
I have some doubts about San Francisco’s ability to run a provider well, given the long history of corruption in city service providers and permitting agencies.
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#54If you move to San Francisco and get electricity (from PG&E) then you will be automatically signed up to buy your electricity from the city, instead of from PG&E. You'll still pay PG&E for delivering the electricity.
This results in:
- higher cost (because SFPUC charges more for electricity generation than does PG&E)
- your PG&E bill being confusing (I've interacted with smart people who couldn't figure out how much they were paying per kWh on average)
In 2020, someone in my neighbourhood put in a request (via the official process) for traffic calming on a nearby road where cars drive dangerously fast, and often fail to stop at a marked pedestrian crossing.
In December 2024, I had a near miss on that crosswalk and contacted the city. I have followed up with them every 3-4 weeks since then.
The last I heard, they might have a public hearing about a potential road hump, in summer 2026.
It's hard to believe the city government is capable of running an electric company.
(I'm no fan of PG&E BTW. Here in SF I've paid more per kWh and had more power outages per unit time, than anywhere else I've lived.)
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#55[deleted]
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#56PG&E is a failure. It’s wild prioritizing its reform and replacement isn’t seen as the existential threat to California Democrats’ national ambitions that it rightfully is.
Distribution shouldn’t be this expensive nor cause this many fires. If the cost of distributing power to remote, fire-prone communities isn’t politically feasible to push to them directly, the cities should be put on a separate distribution system to isolate the cost inflation.
Silicon Valley buys PG&E power and handles distribution itself. It has some of the only reasonable power rates in California [1].
[1] https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/residents/rates-and-fees
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Compare to Santa Clara, which has their own well run utility, and charges less than half PG&E rates. This. Lived in Santa Clara. SVP is the best utility in California.
100% of its generation and grid stability is provided by PG&E. All it provides is the local distro and local maintenance. Also, in a low generation scenario, you are the first to be cut off to save the rest of the grid.
> 100% of its generation and grid stability is provided by PG&E. All it provides is the local distro and local maintenance
Sounds like we have a solution! Get PG&E out of distribution. They can keep running power plants, where there is at least competition.
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#58On the note of PG&E, my electric bill averages to about $750 despite only running an air conditioner, several device chargers, a router, some lights and a fridge... Thanks PG&E.
No wonder people are fleeing California in droves. There is absolutely no justification for a bill that high other than malfeasance or gross mismanagement. That is straight-up theft of your money. For comparison, I have double that plus electric appliances and a home-lab with 6 rack servers that run 24/7 and my bill rarely tops $175 in the dead of summer. And I like the thermostat cold . If you live in a duplex or co…
> No wonder people are fleeing California in droves
“Fleeing” is hyperbole. Population is roughly flat [1].
[1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/PST045224
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> CAISO has the lowest wholesale electricity costs in the nation, by far Much lower than that provided by the TVA? Ages ago, I used to live in an area served by the TVA, and its power prices were notably cheaper than anywhere else. I'd heard that this was because a huge chunk of its power was provided by fission plants, but never investigated.
Yes, CAISO wholesale rates are much lower, but California also has the highest retail cost in the continental US, at over 28c/kWh. If any customer in the TVA paid that much for power there'd be riots.
Where does one even find wholesale rates for the various regional providers?
I -a complete ignoramous- spent like ten whole minutes poking around for wholesale rates. I could find documents about rates for several providers (including TVA) from many years back, complaints about rates increasing for many providers (but no actual mention of the new rates) and some governmental site that provided rates for a selected subset of all providers which included CAISO and one in Texas, but not TVA.
You'd think that this would be something that'd be very easy to find on -say- the DoE's website, but apparently you'd be totally wrong.
Re: San Francisco Weighs PG&E Takeover Amid Soaring Utility Costs
#60SF's insane electricity prices are the sole reason I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid instead of a Tesla Model 3. They both cost 12 cents per mile here, so it was just the mild hassle of charging that tipped it out of favor. If I lived somewhere with sane electricity prices like Seattle I totally would have switched.