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Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

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Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#81

Post by koe123 »

andrewmutz wrote: post #11

If you want to understand the likely capabilities of AI technology in the future, listen to software engineers like this guy. If you want to understand the impact of AI technology on the economy, don't listen to software engineers, listen to economists.

I come from a research background, and transitioned to software later. There is an interesting tendency of software engineers to believe they have skills outside of their skillset.

Relevant here: the would we trust a Software engineer, which in general don’t always obtain the mathematical foundation to understand deep learning in the first place, on the trajectory of AI?

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#82

Post by YZF »

codexon wrote: post #49

I've held this view and talked about it many times here before. It seems like an obvious conclusion to me that the end result will be a few AI owners trading among themselves should AI develop in what seems to be likely: recursive self improvement, robotics allowing it to displace manual labor and combat. Then the owners will be trading for land, AI tech, minerals, energy, which will likely be owned by the other AI c…

For what purpose exactly? So I am a rich AI owner and my goal is to get more land to build another AI data center? And my robots will combat the other AI owner's robot of that land and resources? What sort of trade am I going to be doing with the other AI owners?

That feels a bit silly. I mean anything is possible. Anything is possible even if you take AI out of the picture. All countries are like North Korea and their rulers fight and trade. Or all of earth is government by one oppressive dictator. So far it seems the broader incentives/forces push us in a different direction.

AGI and robotics do potentially change some of the dynamics.

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#83

Post by smallmancontrov »

graphime wrote: post #59
smallmancontrov wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my god I can just FEEL the growth! It's going to trickle down any second now! Any second!

[dead]

Capital pays you for being rich in proportion to how rich you are. Elon can't hide behind my 401k, he doesn't fit. Also: most Americans and most people are far poorer than you and I and get paid even less for being rich than you and I.

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#86

Post by jaggederest »

YZF wrote: post #82
codexon wrote: post #49

I've held this view and talked about it many times here before. It seems like an obvious conclusion to me that the end result will be a few AI owners trading among themselves should AI develop in what seems to be likely: recursive self improvement, robotics allowing it to displace manual labor and combat. Then the owners will be trading for land, AI tech, minerals, energy, which will likely be owned by the other AI c…

For what purpose exactly? So I am a rich AI owner and my goal is to get more land to build another AI data center? And my robots will combat the other AI owner's robot of that land and resources? What sort of trade am I going to be doing with the other AI owners? That feels a bit silly. I mean anything is possible. Anything is possible even if you take AI out of the picture. All countries are like North Korea and the…

To be fair, that doesn't seem to be stopping any of the billionaire class from trying frantically to accumulate more wealth today, I don't know why AI ascendant would change any of those incentives.

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#87

Post by sosomoxie »

mc32 wrote: post #76
dyauspitr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever, let it happen. Humans working on anything other than exactly what they want to do is stupid. The few will eventually have to give the masses the necessities at some point though that can happen in one of two ways, from the very beginning or wrested forcefully after a painful era. Both are better than the current paradigm of what is essentially slavery with extra steps. A world where a human can work exactly…

I think everyone who is able should earn their keep. From ants to lions, to survive and live, even if in meager spurts they must put in some work.

Only if wealth will be evenly distributed, otherwise you're just enriching someone else.

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#88

Post by codexon »

YZF wrote: post #82
codexon wrote: post #49

I've held this view and talked about it many times here before. It seems like an obvious conclusion to me that the end result will be a few AI owners trading among themselves should AI develop in what seems to be likely: recursive self improvement, robotics allowing it to displace manual labor and combat. Then the owners will be trading for land, AI tech, minerals, energy, which will likely be owned by the other AI c…

For what purpose exactly? So I am a rich AI owner and my goal is to get more land to build another AI data center? And my robots will combat the other AI owner's robot of that land and resources? What sort of trade am I going to be doing with the other AI owners? That feels a bit silly. I mean anything is possible. Anything is possible even if you take AI out of the picture. All countries are like North Korea and the…

Why does it feel silly? There are already billionaires, and now Elon Musk is a trillionaire, and they still want more even though they have enough money to spend for several lifetimes.

Some people always want more. And defending against others like that will result in infinite demand.

Re: Peopleless economy? Not technically impossible

#90

Post by jameslk »

whatever1 wrote: post #60

Why do we believe that AI (if indeed we achieve human level AI) will have different outcome than the means of production or capital? It’s a winner takes all situation. Very few will accumulate all of the wealth of world. This time it will be more efficient than the Industrial Revolution, because not only you can produce the weapons for the meatbags to protect your wealth, you can even get rid of the meatbags and just…

> Very few will accumulate all of the wealth of world.

Where do these few acquire all their wealth?

What happens when these remaining few need to compete?

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