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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#441

Post by applfanboysbgon »

tptacek wrote: post #440
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say a word about "our profession". Where is the upside for humanity ? Everyone is bearing the cost of hardware going up 4x. Anyone purchasing a computer feels the downside of components costing 4x. Anyone who likes interesting things being hosted on the internet feels the downside of small-scale projects shutting down when they can no longer be sustainably hosted at 4x cost. Anyone who likes interesting c…

I read "fewer jobs" and "massive increase in hardware cost" as issues principally pertaining to programmers. I can't tell if any of the rest of this argument applies if we stipulate that's what I'm talking about.

Why would massive increase in hardware cost pertain only to programmers? You do realise that programmers make up perhaps 1% of the people who buy hardware, which number in the billions?

Decrease in jobs doesn't necessarily relate only to software dev either. Translation and customer service are fields that are likely to suffer greatly, for example, and end consumers also suffer when those jobs are outsourced because LLMs do a shit job at both but for cheaper than a human does it. Their comment didn't read as pertaining to "our profession" at all to me.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#442

Post by tptacek »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #441
tptacek wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read "fewer jobs" and "massive increase in hardware cost" as issues principally pertaining to programmers. I can't tell if any of the rest of this argument applies if we stipulate that's what I'm talking about.

Why would massive increase in hardware cost pertain only to programmers? You do realise that programmers make up perhaps 1% of the people who buy hardware, which number in the billions? Decrease in jobs doesn't necessarily relate only to software dev either. Translation and customer service are fields that are likely to suffer greatly, for example, and end consumers also suffer when those jobs are outsourced because…

The massive increase in hardware costs we're talking about here are Hetzner servers. Normal people don't acquire any kind of server space. Apple is now shipping the Macbook Neo, one of their better laptops ever, at mid-hundreds of dollars.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#443

Post by includenotfound »

flossly wrote: post #410
ryandvm wrote: post #280

[flagged]

Upsides will be seen into societies that are not capital-above-govt, but govt-above-capital. China for instance: they will show advantages of AI (amongst other technologies). Sure they've got surveillance there, but there's also surveillance in the west. In China you have clean streets and low crime, while in the west it's surveillance without tangible benefit for the common people.

[flagged]

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#444

Post by simianparrot »

flossly wrote: post #410
ryandvm wrote: post #280

[flagged]

Upsides will be seen into societies that are not capital-above-govt, but govt-above-capital. China for instance: they will show advantages of AI (amongst other technologies). Sure they've got surveillance there, but there's also surveillance in the west. In China you have clean streets and low crime, while in the west it's surveillance without tangible benefit for the common people.

Social credit bonus for wild unfounded claims online is probably nice if you live in the top 5 megacities.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#445

Post by applfanboysbgon »

tptacek wrote: post #442
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would massive increase in hardware cost pertain only to programmers? You do realise that programmers make up perhaps 1% of the people who buy hardware, which number in the billions? Decrease in jobs doesn't necessarily relate only to software dev either. Translation and customer service are fields that are likely to suffer greatly, for example, and end consumers also suffer when those jobs are outsourced because…

The massive increase in hardware costs we're talking about here are Hetzner servers. Normal people don't acquire any kind of server space. Apple is now shipping the Macbook Neo, one of their better laptops ever , at mid-hundreds of dollars.

Normal people don't acquire server space, but they do interact with things hosted on servers. We are going to see a proliferation of small services shutting down and other services raising their prices as a natural consequence of hardware going up 4x. Of course, it's not just Hetzner hardware going up, but virtually all consumer computation.

Apple has always placed a >5x markup on their hardware that well-to-do consumers would pay for brand name and status culture reasons. That they released a 'budget' option (for their standards) does not counteract the fact that the entire bottom of the consumer hardware market is now rising to Apple prices.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#446

Post by tptacek »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #445
tptacek wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The massive increase in hardware costs we're talking about here are Hetzner servers. Normal people don't acquire any kind of server space. Apple is now shipping the Macbook Neo, one of their better laptops ever , at mid-hundreds of dollars.

Normal people don't acquire server space, but they do interact with things hosted on servers. We are going to see a proliferation of small services shutting down and other services raising their prices as a natural consequence of hardware going up 4x. Of course, it's not just Hetzner hardware going up, but virtually all consumer computation. Apple has always placed a >5x markup on their hardware that well-to-do consu…

What's the thing that relies on servers that got 4x more expensive for consumers? I think this is something you want to be true more than it's something that is true.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#447

Post by auguzanellato »

roncesvalles wrote: post #328
yread wrote: post #114

There can only be so many "I saved 10x by moving to Hetzner" posts before they pick up the value they were leaving on the table...

It was never the same quality though. A VM at AWS or GCP is not even remotely comparable to a VPS at some low-end provider. Things like RAID, network/powersupply redundancy, internal privacy controls (nothing stopping a VPS provider from snooping in your filesystem), software patch quality, noisy neighbor mitigation, bandwidth quality, SLAs etc. Then all the value-added stuff like Terraform support, logging, monitori…

Hetzner has a decent terraform provider btw

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#448

Post by carlosjobim »

windexh8er wrote: post #420
tptacek wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there need to be an "upside" legible to our profession?

Because the alternative is admitting the main upside so far is: a few VCs and early employees get yacht money while everyone else gets a gate-kept chatbot and constant fear mongering. But hey, I guess we all have our own opinion of " upside ".

It doesn't seem like it, but there are other people in the world besides programmers and venture capitalists. They will benefit from AI, many already are. Some professionals are not.

A computer used to be a person, it was a job title. They worked in giant offices where they calculated important things on paper.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#449

Post by conception »

includenotfound wrote: post #443
flossly wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upsides will be seen into societies that are not capital-above-govt, but govt-above-capital. China for instance: they will show advantages of AI (amongst other technologies). Sure they've got surveillance there, but there's also surveillance in the west. In China you have clean streets and low crime, while in the west it's surveillance without tangible benefit for the common people.

[flagged]

Texas at least disagrees with you - https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG...

Do you have statistics to back your assertions that disagree with this data?

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#450

Post by applfanboysbgon »

tptacek wrote: post #446
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal people don't acquire server space, but they do interact with things hosted on servers. We are going to see a proliferation of small services shutting down and other services raising their prices as a natural consequence of hardware going up 4x. Of course, it's not just Hetzner hardware going up, but virtually all consumer computation. Apple has always placed a >5x markup on their hardware that well-to-do consu…

What's the thing that relies on servers that got 4x more expensive for consumers? I think this is something you want to be true more than it's something that is true.

I didn't make that exact claim, and I also spoke of future tense "will be". Obviously, the budget prices just raised. You can see some anecdotes here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48545965

...which I will throw in my anecdote to, that I will have to shut down some hobby servers I was hosting because I can't afford to host them at these prices. Not right away because the current price is grandfathered in, but probably sometime soon, and this has the immediate chilling effect that I won't be starting any new hobby servers.

For paid services, hosting is not 100% of their costs nor are they priced at-cost, so there is no reason to believe they will go up exactly 4x to match hardware costs, but it's inevitable that if the hosting line item has gone up 4x, various services will find the need to raise their prices.

---

rate-limited, so:

> Hobby servers are things programmers run. The premise of this thread is that things can be bad for programmers without being "bad".

I am not hosting services for programmers. There are thousands of non-programmers who interact with the servers I host. You seem extremely fixated on this weird idea that you can relate everything back to programmers suffering and that everything is fine if this only sucks for programmers.

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