Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but they are incompatible with being on the forefront of AI.
Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.
Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
101–110 of 313 posts
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#102Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#103Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
Perhaps it merely says that certain good positive things stifle other good, positive things?
Having 24 languages is a good, positive thing for the EU's cultural distinctiveness, respect for citizens' heritage, and the fairness of the nexus of power not excluding speakers of any country's language.
And yet it's a major barrier to cross-border trade, military cooperation, popular support of closer political ties, and the prospects of any EU companies growing large enough to counterbalance the amazons and facebooks of the world.
A ban on cracking eggs serves the interests of eggs, while stifling the omelette industry.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#104Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
Bullshit. The AI Act is not the problem, Mistral models are definitely usable and some were/are competitive. European future looks bright compared to the political landscape the US has now
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#105Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
The EU can and should reform many parts of its sclerotic laws and bureaucracies. Whether it can do so before it becomes a subservient puppet state which serves as a battleground for competing powers remains to be seen.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.
You can only make money if you produce value. If you stop producing value because your old industries decline/collapse and you miss out on new industries, your wealth will trend towards that of a third world country.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bullshit. The AI Act is not the problem, Mistral models are definitely usable and some were/are competitive. European future looks bright compared to the political landscape the US has now
Do you think that companies and States will use "usable" models from Mistral (who has left the race anyway), or frontiers/near frontier ? It's akin to say that walking a good enough means of transportation and we don't need anything else. One day the guys in charriots will remind you of the dire reality.
But we will see, they have very interesting Enterpise Use Cases, like with Mistral Forge.
And YannLeCun decided to build in Europe as well
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#108Does Europe need to train a frontier AI model, at all ? "Training a frontier AI model" is a euphemism. The AI industry is, at present, a disproportionately resource-intensive and exploitative activity which carries only an religious promise of making up for itself at some future date (note that the beliefs being touted to board members are different than the gospel spread to users). More accessible "non-frontier" mod…
Perhaps. While I'm more impressed by AI than I think you are, I do also say on occasion that recent developments in AI feels much like the 90s rapid development of computer graphics, in the sense we're overly impressed by what we see only to discard it quickly when the next improvement arrives: https://archive.org/details/nextgen-issue-26
If the US government declares no model ≥ Fable can be released, that could make it completely pointless for anyone in the USA to work towards superior models, which may cause rapid catching up, or may cause the investment bubble to pop and all the money to go away.
Or it may cause all the investment to go to not-USA. China's one possibility, EU is another. No idea which would be least-distasteful to the people currently eager to invest in AI.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might or might not be legal, but who's getting paid when ChatGPT uses knowledge from a phpbb forum from 2008? Is that human person well taken care of in today's society? I use ChatGPT too, but if ChatGPT's coming for all jobs, don't the humans that fed the machine have a right to not be lost and forgotten?
> don't the humans that fed the machine have a right to not be lost and forgotten? Honest answer, no, not if it was publicly published and available for free, not indefinitely. From an ethical (not legal) perspective, 18 years seems long enough for something like that to enter the public domain.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just as a reminder, Google DeepMind is right here in the UK, and there are hundreds, thousands of top AI researchers that are foundational to everything that the US is doing, as much, if more so than the Chinese contributions. We need compute, yes, but we certainly aren't short of talent if we put our minds to it, and many of them are already here.
Deepmind lab is a US company.
Founded in the UK, then bought by Google, it still has its HQ in London.