Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

smithsonianmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 123 posts

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#61

Post by dqv »

inigyou wrote: post #34
derdi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

250 years is longer than the existence of a country called Italy, let alone the Italian Republic. Just like in Italy, the history of people in your area did not start with the founding of your country.

Really? My history class taught me that before the Europeans arrived there were only the native americans, so nothing of historical value.

I had always thought I didn't like history. It was just so incredibly boring.

Later in life, I found out why. It's not that I didn't like history, I just don't like the sanitized version taught to me in primary/secondary school. It's like corporate public relations where they vaguely acknowledge wrongdoing, but communicate in a very weaselly way to downplay it.

The rote response I hear from the USA fandom is always some variation of "WELL THEM INDIANS DID BAD THINGS TOO" and it's like... ok? Then why obfuscate? If everyone is equally bad or whatever weird thing you're trying to say, why not just lay out all the cards and let me decide for myself how to interpret the history?

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#62

Post by rigonkulous »

cableshaft wrote: post #24
DougN7 wrote: post #21

As an American, where we have comparatively little history (we’re celebrating 250 years - some folks in Europe live in houses older than that!) visiting Rome is almost mind blowing to see SO MUCH ancient history right there, and almost everywhere. So cool!

There are older structures and artifacts than 250 years, they're just not European in origin. Like Cahokia Mounds in Illinois: https://cahokiamounds.org/ Arrowheads are an example of something that's not too difficult to find in the wild if you know where to look.

Narwala Gabarnmang says hi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabarnmung

44,000 years of continuous human occupation. (Except for a brief period during the 20th century ..)

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#64

Post by ourmandave »

mothballed wrote: post #59
csomar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar thing in Tunisia where if ruins are found, the government will own the site. Theoretically, it should compensate the owners for their loss, but practically they pay peanuts. So if people find ruins in their lands, they just hide it/throw it/bury it.

There is a phrase "Shoot, shovel, shutup" used in the US whenever anything is found on private property (usually endangered animals) that the government has an interest in protecting/restricting. The owners will destroy it immediately and before anyone finds out so that they don't lose their property rights. Thus you have the unintended consequences that these regulations accelerate rather than mitigate their destruc…

Well that's not going to work on bigger animals (e.g. buffalo) as you can only carry back 100 lbs at per hunt.

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#65

Post by palmotea »

mothballed wrote: post #59
csomar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar thing in Tunisia where if ruins are found, the government will own the site. Theoretically, it should compensate the owners for their loss, but practically they pay peanuts. So if people find ruins in their lands, they just hide it/throw it/bury it.

There is a phrase "Shoot, shovel, shutup" used in the US whenever anything is found on private property (usually endangered animals) that the government has an interest in protecting/restricting. The owners will destroy it immediately and before anyone finds out so that they don't lose their property rights. Thus you have the unintended consequences that these regulations accelerate rather than mitigate their destruc…

That's why all civilizations need to proactively obliterate any durable structures and artifacts they create on a regular basis. Destroy everything in that sweet spot where it's old junk that no one cares about' nothing should survive long enough to become valuable due to its antiquity.

If you don't leave anything behind, future generations can just build without caution, because the past will forever be shrouded in mystery. Let's not repeat ancient civilizations' mistakes.

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#66

Post by khazhoux »

ourmandave wrote: post #64
mothballed wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a phrase "Shoot, shovel, shutup" used in the US whenever anything is found on private property (usually endangered animals) that the government has an interest in protecting/restricting. The owners will destroy it immediately and before anyone finds out so that they don't lose their property rights. Thus you have the unintended consequences that these regulations accelerate rather than mitigate their destruc…

Well that's not going to work on bigger animals (e.g. buffalo) as you can only carry back 100 lbs at per hunt.

The plan also fails miserably with elephants, giraffes, and rhinos.

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#67

Post by WalterBright »

dqv wrote: post #61
inigyou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? My history class taught me that before the Europeans arrived there were only the native americans, so nothing of historical value.

I had always thought I didn't like history. It was just so incredibly boring. Later in life, I found out why. It's not that I didn't like history, I just don't like the sanitized version taught to me in primary/secondary school. It's like corporate public relations where they vaguely acknowledge wrongdoing, but communicate in a very weaselly way to downplay it. The rote response I hear from the USA fandom is always s…

Unfortunately, the American Indians did not have writing, and so the histories of the tribes is pretty murky.

For example, most of what is known about the Commanches comes from letters and diaries of white people who were in contact with them, or were enslaved by them.

See "Empire of the Summer Moon" by Gwynne.

https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful...

It's a fantastic account, and I'm amazed nobody has made an epic miniseries about it.

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#68

Post by WalterBright »

al_borland wrote: post #5
Dependance wrote: post #2

There must be a metaphor somewhere in this, when somehow it is the angry youth that discovers something of value hidden in plain view that no one bothered to look at before !

I visited Rome last year. There was a lot of talk about how long it was taking to build a new subway line, because they kept running into ancient artifacts. It was also commonly said that the city was like a lasagna, with layers upon layers of history under everything. Building that were originally built elevated are now at street level. It almost seems hard not to find ancient ruins. It then becomes a question of pr…

My obvious thought is why not dig deeper to build the subways?

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#69

Post by MAustriaGA »

mothballed wrote: post #59
csomar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar thing in Tunisia where if ruins are found, the government will own the site. Theoretically, it should compensate the owners for their loss, but practically they pay peanuts. So if people find ruins in their lands, they just hide it/throw it/bury it.

There is a phrase "Shoot, shovel, shutup" used in the US whenever anything is found on private property (usually endangered animals) that the government has an interest in protecting/restricting. The owners will destroy it immediately and before anyone finds out so that they don't lose their property rights. Thus you have the unintended consequences that these regulations accelerate rather than mitigate their destruc…

[flagged]

Re: Teenagers Stayed Overnight at Their School and Found Hidden Ancient Roman Ruins

#70

Post by DougN7 »

cableshaft wrote: post #24
DougN7 wrote: post #21

As an American, where we have comparatively little history (we’re celebrating 250 years - some folks in Europe live in houses older than that!) visiting Rome is almost mind blowing to see SO MUCH ancient history right there, and almost everywhere. So cool!

There are older structures and artifacts than 250 years, they're just not European in origin. Like Cahokia Mounds in Illinois: https://cahokiamounds.org/ Arrowheads are an example of something that's not too difficult to find in the wild if you know where to look.

Those are very cool. Worth a visit if you’re ever in the St Louis, Missouri area.
Post reply on HN