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Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

frontiersin.org

111–120 of 166 posts

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#111

Good riddance - this kind of thing needs to be experimented with more. But 5 grams! This reads like witch doctor science; I’m surprised it passed ethics

5 grams isn't a high dose though, I'm not sure why it's described as such. Shops sell doses starting at 15g, although they recommend newbies take only half of that.

Example of a shop which describes 5g as a "light dose": https://www.sirius.nl/atlantis/

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#112

Highly editorialized title. "Transient multidomain functional improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin-containing mushroom administration: a case report" This is exactly that. A case report. This is not a successful treatment. Far short of that.

It appears that one dose of the shrooms had positive effects observable for several weeks. That is very encouraging and hints at this being a practical treatment. (The word "transient" in the original title sets us up for disappointment, conjuring up the image of an experiment in which Alzheimer's symptoms are suspended for 20 minutes).

Questions linger about the long term use; what happens to someone who has been taking this dose, say, every two weeks for a year, or five years? Does even the second dose work as well as the first?

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#113
post #49

Psilocybin is one of those things we don't even know the full effects of because the government had a hysterical fit and completely banned it because people who took it were more likely to oppose the Vietnam War.

What’s exciting though is that this administration recently signed an executive order directing the agency to speed up the development and approval process for psychedelics.

Because Trump is in bad need of this shit?

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#114
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Not sure which particular stopped-clock struck right within the generally anti-science MAHA movement but I think everybody is happy to take the win.

that feeling of a clock striking right is actually a momentary glint of light pouring through a crack in the cold stone shell that has become encrusted around the hearts of those soaking too often in the type of extreme rhetorical panic which broods a curated and embedded fear similar to the kind that makes children afraid of the bogey man, they feel safer to stay hidden with the fear than to venture out enough to di…

Burma Shave

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#115
post #66

I was recently reading about a phenomenon called terminal lucidity, where a person suffering from mental decline such as Alzheimer's spontaneously improves, recognizing loved ones, retrieving memories, and being able to carry on conversations. It's called "terminal" because the person usually dies within hours or days. If this is a real phenomenon, then it's amazing to think that at least some of the people who suffe…

If you have cared for someone with dementia, this isn't so surprising. It isn't a monotonic decline with memories disappearing forever. It is like wave upon wave of changing capacity at different time scales. The general trend is deterioration, but there are frequent periods that can almost seem like remission. There is a well known daily cycle referred to as "sundowning", where the sufferer tends to come unraveled l…

> It isn't a monotonic decline with memories disappearing forever.

Last time I visited my grandpa he was really far gone. The day we arrived and subsequent two days he didn't even recognize his daughter, my mom, or even recall he had one. He'd sit in the bedroom and watch the garden, and ask "who's that guy" every 15 minutes or so, as he'd forget about me in the livingroom.

The last day we visited before flying home. I entered first, and this time he sat in the living room, and as he saw me enter the hallway he exclaimed my name. We reminisced for hours in fluent English, his third language and my second language, as I wasn't so good in his and my moms native language. He recalled lots of details, some even I had forgotten but I confirmed later.

He passed away a couple of weeks later.

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#116
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Not sure which particular stopped-clock struck right within the generally anti-science MAHA movement but I think everybody is happy to take the win.

> MAHA Make America Hallucinogenic Again?

*Happy Again.

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#117

Highly editorialized title. "Transient multidomain functional improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin-containing mushroom administration: a case report" This is exactly that. A case report. This is not a successful treatment. Far short of that.

So is this about temporarily overclocking some cells that would then return to a healthy baseline before collapsing back after the overclocking agent is gone? Why not just do 500mg B1 HCl IV then for a comparison to see if this was just a metabolic block?

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#118
post #49

Psilocybin is one of those things we don't even know the full effects of because the government had a hysterical fit and completely banned it because people who took it were more likely to oppose the Vietnam War.

What’s exciting though is that this administration recently signed an executive order directing the agency to speed up the development and approval process for psychedelics.

> this administration recently signed an executive order directing the agency to speed up the development and approval process for psychedelics

Can’t the President directly unschedule it?

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, when you take it, it becomes clear it just injects salience / profundity / meaning into whatever you happen to be focused on or have on your mind (EDIT: mostly this is the main effect, but there can be novel perspectives / insights, and other audio-visual changes, but IMO it is the felt meaning that primarily drives the more credulous claims). Without adequate preparation, this is likely to be worthless in mos…

> However, not all causes of depression or addiction are about accepting death, or a salience / meaning problem, and even when that kind of issue is involved, a momentary experience of profound meaning is NOT actually necessarily transformative either (i.e. you can and in fact must still choose how to interpret that experience, once out of it). I don't think it's (just) encountering the profound that ends addiction,…

Oh, I don't doubt that sometimes something fundamental can be altered. The best sort of broad explanation I've seen that jives with the experience is maybe the one I've found here: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/arti..., which I think would agree with your notion of a "reset" to fundamental neural structures. And yes, for certain conditions, like cluster headaches, as far as I know, psychedelics are the only things showing much real promise.

It can also just be easy for some proponents to forget that tonnes of people do and have done these things, with no clear significant lasting effects. And it is also common even for enthusiasts to say they they need to do take trips somewhat regularly (e.g. every few weeks or months) to regain the benefits. One-off miracles obviously happen, but I think are statistically likely the exception. And you can reverse or reject your insights, so for sure the trip is only one piece of the puzzle.

I'd love to see more serious research on psychedelics in general, to better engineer for useful and changing experiences. As it stands, just "take the psychedelic, manage your set and setting, and you'll have a significant positive effect" is generally not very plausible nor I think actually supported empirically or even by most anecdotes.

Re: Improvement in advanced Alzheimer’s disease following high-dose psilocybin

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, when you take it, it becomes clear it just injects salience / profundity / meaning into whatever you happen to be focused on or have on your mind (EDIT: mostly this is the main effect, but there can be novel perspectives / insights, and other audio-visual changes, but IMO it is the felt meaning that primarily drives the more credulous claims). Without adequate preparation, this is likely to be worthless in mos…

I think its relatively easy to make it beneficial with an adult person taken in most serene settings & with good intentions. The studies they did do seem to reflect that. I would advice against a too high of a dose first time. The 5 grams they normally give in studies seems to be on the high side for a first time.

Set and setting can help make a positive experience likely, yes, I think what proponents often miss is that for the vast majority of people, the experience will mostly just be "interesting" and "memorable", and not particularly transformative. I.e. transformative / curative effects seem to be rare, IMO for the reasons I already stated.
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