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Hetzner Price Adjustment

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#231

Post by jermaustin1 »

drnick1 wrote: post #183
sph wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on a desktop, but as a backup I have bought a refurbished Dell Latitude, there are a lot of decent ones for €250 on eBay. Put Linux on it, it’s good enough for most workloads. I just hope my top shelf 2020-era desktop doesn’t die on me because it would get very expensive to get a new build these days.

> I just hope my top shelf 2020-era desktop doesn’t die on me because it would get very expensive to get a new build these days. I could probably sell my gaming rig (12900K, 64GB of DDR5, 4TB NVME, RTX 3090) for more today than what I built it for about 4 years ago, it's absurd. I won't, of course, because it's still glorious for 4K gaming even today. In retrospect, $5000 very well spent.

I have a similar rig, but a 10th gen i7, 128GB of DDR4, 2TB NVMe, and dual RTX 3090s. Built it in 2021 for crypto mining, it ended up paying itself off just before Eth went PoW. I kept it mining even after profitability, because it ran warm enough to heat my apartment leaving my HVAC on fan-only to circulate the heat around.

After winter, I started playing with various other GPU loads until LLMs and SD became easy enough to use. Now it's my experimentation machine.

It's already paid for itself, so anything I sell it for would be profit, but it is still super nice for running local LLMs that power various projects "for free".

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#232

Post by cassianoleal »

colechristensen wrote: post #213
seanw444 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the free investor money does run out I've been saying the same thing, but that's why they made the move to IPO, no?

And then? There are only so many trillion dollar IPOs out there. And then what next?

More government money to fund the ever elusive doomsday AI.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#233

Post by iLoveOncall »

BigJono wrote: post #88
iLoveOncall wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can the users consume new features in that pace? It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Given coding is only a small part of the developer's job, there's just nothing new to consume. The only change I have noticed in software since LLMs have hit the mass market is degradation of software quality, not increase in feature releases. Prices have increased for literally nothing.

> It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread. The only thing that is clear is that measuring programming is just as impossible as it has always been. In all my years of projects they've either been resounding successes or gone down in fla…

> Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread.

Sorry, I meant 10-15% at most.

If it was by more than that then we'd see the effects in an obvious way. Since we don't those 15% are already generous.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#234

Post by Brybry »

larodi wrote: post #230
originalvichy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real risk after the slow death of personal computing. Even internet resources like servers will be hoarded by the hyperscalers that are the only ones who can afford to order years of compute hardware in advance. I’ve already started buying cheap old business PCs just in case I’ll ever need to have simple barebones machines to run things on.

Sadly this is not a joke nor some doomsday thinking. Google recently repurposed thousands of phones for server needs. Why? Well guess why… to teach everyone tis coming.

To clarify: UC San Diego is planning to build a cluster of 2000 Pixel phones for computer science class use and Google, in support, helped with a test with 20 phones.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#235

Post by markonen »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #101
harrall wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But VPS providers share the same hardware and overprovision. They don’t need to add new hardware every time a new customer signs up. If you buy a dedicated server at Hetzner, you actually need immediate hardware. Many VPS providers also just resell Hetzner, OVH or other dedicated servers so they won’t increase the price until their own provider does.

That's all true, but this seems disproportionate even to the hardware market. They already raised their prices recently as hardware got more expensive, and now they are quadrupled . Maybe I am just misreading the hardware market right now.

If you see photos/videos of Hetzner datacenters, their servers are essentially plain, low-end motherboards (1G network, few slots) sitting on shelves (don't mean that as derogatory, it's an efficient design). What it does mean is that their per-server costs are absolutely dominated by the very components that are exploding in cost right now: RAM, SSDs and (to a lesser extent) CPUs.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#236

Post by mhitza »

elmo2you wrote: post #225
mhitza wrote: post #11

They are also becoming greedy. I rent their 20GB VRAM instance GEX44, for which they now ask a 500 euro one-time setup fee. Whereas it was something like 60 euros a year ago.

We (company) do the same. Though in our case the setup cost was 80 Euros (I think), less than a year ago. As the GPU proved not really suitable for any serious server workloads (it's a workstation class card), we'll soon be ditching that machine anyways (now for sure). Maybe our other inventory at Hetzner too. Not even because of the price increases themselves, but rather because the way in which they've communicated…

Interesting over the price increase rollover now the setup fee is around 110 euros.

The machine itself is basically useless for any type of realtime inference, no matter what the marketing page states, but I still use it for prototyping LLM integrations and running comparisons across MoE models.

If only the alternatives to framework desktop wouldn't be so poorly built, I might swap it out for a local machine which has more ram but comparable performance for stuff like gpt-oss-20b (around 70tok/s)

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#237

Post by jacekm »

theturtletalks wrote: post #40

I was signing up for Hetzner years ago and it asked me to upload my passport to use their service. At that same time, I was reading about this story about WireCard. It was like Stripe for Europe and worth billions. Turns out it was run by a Russian spy network and was all a sham. That video alleged Germany’s bureaucracy is filled with Russian agents and this can be traced back to the East/West Berlin days. To save a…

Yup, I signed last weekend, they asked me for a passport and I deleted the account immediately. Scaleway also asks for ID. I am gonna try OVH next.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#238

Post by kamma4434 »

stephenhuey wrote: post #26
binarymax wrote: post #14

This is just the reality of hardware costs now. RAM and Disk are scarce, prices have skyrocketed. I wonder how much leverage the hyperscalers like AWS/GCP/Azure have on their own supply chain to keep costs level in their clouds.

Inching closer to Vultr prices. There are some Rails projects I might have later this year, and I had already been thinking of putting them onto Vultr via Hatchbox since Vultr offered a managed db. Maybe for some stuff that I can run a Rails 8 Solid Stack app with just sqlite, I'd use Hetzner. I tested both with Hatchbox but have nothing in production on either yet and generally use Heroku and Render still. Has anyon…

We use Vultr, DigitalOcean and Hetzner for global coverage. Vultr is by far the worst - some DC like Australia are pretty bad, lots of connectivity issues, some are OK. Their forte is that they offer a lot of DCs. We are migrating some workloads back to DO, where things are usually way smoother. Hetzner is our core, but does not offer DCs in Asia, Africa or Latam.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#239

Post by ghosty141 »

transmit101 wrote: post #128
pelagicAustral wrote: post #47

For EU-based ops I moved to UpCloud, they have top customer service and their offerings are far more complete than Hetzner... Plus, they have more zones.

Is there anything to suggest these increases are not reflecting the increased baseline price of RAM, GPUs, etc? If not then it is only a matter of time before other providers are forced into similar price hikes.

Is there anything to suggest these increases are reflecting the increased baseline price of RAM, GPUs, etc?

I mean don't get me wrong, this for sure is a factor but like others said, other services don't see such drastic price hikes.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#240

Post by jorams »

mhitza wrote: post #11

They are also becoming greedy. I rent their 20GB VRAM instance GEX44, for which they now ask a 500 euro one-time setup fee. Whereas it was something like 60 euros a year ago.

> I rent their 20GB VRAM instance GEX44, for which they now ask a 500 euro one-time setup fee

Along with the increase in monthly prices they've dropped setup fees back to more approachable levels, though not as low as they were a year ago. For the GEX44 it was €79 a year ago, now €114. Monthly price was €184 a year ago, now €234.

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