Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

monash.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 150 posts

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#21

Post by amluto »

projektfu wrote: post #16
vlovich123 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone is against a treatment that works, regardless of the mechanism. The problem is that claimed success in these rat models has never transferred to humans. Either the problem is that rat Alzheimer’s is a poor model for human Alzheimer’s or the science being done is poor quality. > Because reducing amyloid burden is clinically proven to improve functional outcomes, these preclinical results strongly…

If a beta-amyloid therapy eventually makes it to successful trials, there will still be people who believe the argument is already over and the therapy cannot work. The problem identified by Lowe and others is that some amyloid-oriented researchers were not only falsifying data but also acting as reviewers and editors of journals and tanking alternative explanations. That has stopped, presumably, but alternative appr…

Therapies targeting amyloid deposits has been tested extensively in actual humans, and it indeed removes amyloid deposits. The main problem is that none of the therapies in question usefully treat Alzheimer’s disease.

Sure, maybe an eventual useful Alzheimer’s therapy will remove amyloid deposits, and maybe it won’t, but it needs to actually treat or at least meaningfully slow the actual disease.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#22

Post by plaguuuuuu »

ck2 wrote: post #18

btw definitely related and seems significant: they found people who use glucosamine (joint pain, knees etc) have a 25% higher chance of Alzheimer's progression https://thesciverse.org/scientists-found-that-a-supplement-t... (still can't figure out if that website is "AI" but they have great articles)

Yep it's all AI-generated. It's annoying that they have a fake human as the author but whatever, it's the interslop.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#23

Post by cassepipe »

quadhome wrote: post #5

Alzheimer’s is driven by the buildup of toxic proteins called amyloid-beta. In the words of Derek Lowe: Amyloid-directed therapies truly, truly do not appear to be the answer for Alzheimer’s treatment. When I started work in the field back in the early 1990s, I was convinced of the opposite - the evidence looked very strong that defects in amyloid processing were indeed the cause of the disease. But that was thirty-f…

This is just one person's (informed I assume) opinion tough. It does sound like common sense but alas common sense is rarely a good guide when it comes down to how the body works.

I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't remember that much but I read someone's "in defense of the amyloid hypothesis" with interest. So if you want an counterpoint, you can go read https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-defense-of-the-amyloid-h...

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#24

Post by chermi »

dbcurtis wrote: post #14
quadhome wrote: post #5

Alzheimer’s is driven by the buildup of toxic proteins called amyloid-beta. In the words of Derek Lowe: Amyloid-directed therapies truly, truly do not appear to be the answer for Alzheimer’s treatment. When I started work in the field back in the early 1990s, I was convinced of the opposite - the evidence looked very strong that defects in amyloid processing were indeed the cause of the disease. But that was thirty-f…

> Alzheimer’s is driven by the buildup of toxic proteins called amyloid-beta. Isn't the current thinking that amyloid-beta buildup is a marker, not a cause? The therapy may be working here, but it isn't clear whether clearing amyloid-beta proteins is the mechanism or an outcome.

Yes. And to anyone paying attention, this has been current since about 2010.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#25

Post by fnordpiglet »

cassepipe wrote: post #23
quadhome wrote: post #5

Alzheimer’s is driven by the buildup of toxic proteins called amyloid-beta. In the words of Derek Lowe: Amyloid-directed therapies truly, truly do not appear to be the answer for Alzheimer’s treatment. When I started work in the field back in the early 1990s, I was convinced of the opposite - the evidence looked very strong that defects in amyloid processing were indeed the cause of the disease. But that was thirty-f…

This is just one person's (informed I assume) opinion tough. It does sound like common sense but alas common sense is rarely a good guide when it comes down to how the body works. I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't remember that much but I read someone's "in defense of the amyloid hypothesis" with interest. So if you want an counterpoint, you can go read https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-defense-of-the-am…

No actually there’s a large body of quashed research over these decades that went against the prevailing hypothesis. It’s one of the key examples of how peer review fails to consider novel approaches in the face of consensus even if consensus is shown to likely be wrong. The fact the original research driving the consensus was fraudulent at worst made it that much more sad.

To be clear this isn’t about whether it’s right or wrong it’s about that science involves investigating all avenues with evidence, proof, and rigor. Group think is how we end up incorporating bias into science, which is anti scientific.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#26

Post by djray »

This pertinent paper appeared more than a decade ago about the flaws in the amyloid plaque hypothesis: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4207354/

Many people without dementia show amyloid plaques in their brains in autopsies. It's becoming more accepted now that there are multiple interrelated causes after decades pursuing the simplistic amyloid plaque theory.

The article is bordering on irresponsible.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#27

Post by Selkirk »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #13

Flagged. Nonsense puff piece by the university. The headline itself is beyond terrible - this is a mouse model and would need years of further successful research to be able to say that it "restores memory" in any meaningful way, let alone in actual humans.

The linked article is intentionally misleading by omission because they left out "in mice" in the university driven article and they certainly know the relevance and consequences of leaving it out.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#28

Post by ebolyen »

I think people are reacting to the press-release more than the work.

I don't see why this is definitely doomed just because they discuss beta-amyloid plaques. Those exist and are real. They probably don't cause it any more than tombstones cause graveyards; very related, but not in the directly mechanistic way we wish.

> Alzheimer’s disease (AD) is a prevalent neurodegenerative disorder characterized by the accumulation of amyloid-beta (Aβ) peptides in the brain.

This can be true and still not be the specific mechanism.

You can treat a specific waste product or you can repair the waste stream. The issue may be waste, but not a specific product, or the issue may not be the waste stream at all.

This work appears to demonstrate evidence of waste stream repair via a well-known waste-product. That doesn't mean that any specific waste product is or is not the problem or that this particular stream is definitely going to remove enough of the waste (if that was the problem).

Maybe there have been a lot of drugs which have similarly attempted waste-stream repair so there's good reason to doubt it on that alone. But I don't think that mentioning beta-amyloid plaque is enough to discard this out-of-hand.

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#29

Post by onraglanroad »

discretion22 wrote: post #2

Great news! If you are a mouse. For humans, not yet progressed to trials though safety has been evaluated for other diseases, so possible for trials to happen quickly? " the compound has strong potential to quickly transition into human clinics because it has already undergone safety evaluations for other diseases."

The Hitchhiker's Guide was right. We spend all our time inventing new cures for the mice!

Re: Copper transport drug restores memory and clears toxic Alzheimer's proteins

#30

Post by cassepipe »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #25
cassepipe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just one person's (informed I assume) opinion tough. It does sound like common sense but alas common sense is rarely a good guide when it comes down to how the body works. I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't remember that much but I read someone's "in defense of the amyloid hypothesis" with interest. So if you want an counterpoint, you can go read https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-defense-of-the-am…

No actually there’s a large body of quashed research over these decades that went against the prevailing hypothesis. It’s one of the key examples of how peer review fails to consider novel approaches in the face of consensus even if consensus is shown to likely be wrong. The fact the original research driving the consensus was fraudulent at worst made it that much more sad. To be clear this isn’t about whether it’s r…

I believe you don't have read the link I posted because its author does address the narrative you present here

But again I am not saying you are wrong and I am even sympathetic to this narrative but ultimately, unconvinced, either way

Post reply on HN