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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

141–150 of 794 posts

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was signing up for Hetzner years ago and it asked me to upload my passport to use their service. I don't really understand what bothers you so much about providing a photo of a "passport" (if you are an European citizen they require a ID card) but credit card info didn't registered as a concern worth noting. Can you explain what is the difference?

Credit card is a largely fixed risk of financial loss, with some legal safeguards for recovery, and the ability to get a replacement card with a different number. Passport carries an open long-term risk of impersonation and you can't just get a new passport because some company has a copy. Just the financial side of that risk can have much greater impact. Unless a company has a legal requirement to "know your custome…

> Unless a company has a legal requirement to "know your customer", e.g. a financial institution, this is a red flag.

Germany also has legal KYC requirements for web hosting and most other things relating to telecommunications.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no AI bubble There is an engineered scarcity, billion dollar companies can't ramp up production? Murica is stuck depending on the good will of Korea and China for thinking rocks? le fucking mao

As I understand it ramping up a new fab takes a couple of years and several billion dollars. The last time they ramped up production prices had crashed back down by the the time the new fab was fully up and running, so this time they're betting that the scarcity will resolve itself like it did last time.

They are scaling up, but most will only come online in end 2027-2028 time frame. And Memory, as in what we use in PCs is easier to manufacture then HBM memory. But all the money is in HBM ...

So for every ~4GB of memory that you can produce in normal DDR5, you can only make 1GB of HBM. But you make multiple times the revenue.

The demand for HBM memory is not going to go away. LLMs are memory bandwidth hungry, and we are going to see production going to AI. But also to "lower end" like B200's.

That means, they are producing multiple times less memory (if we look for the normal market demand), but still need to produce more for the memory bandwidth hungry market.

We are seeing more products entering the "prosumer/business" market that are also memory bandwidth hungry. This demand will not go away. It will actually increase as companies move to more localized workloads. There is is a issue with data privacy that a lot of companies legally deal with.

The lacking ramp up is not a sign of them being scared of over production, its a realization that 3 companies hold the market in a strangle hold, and "slow" scale. If everybody plays friendly, they can milk this for years.

China is a solution but China does not have the HBM production levels, and will take years to scale and put a dent in the market. And China is ... allocating a lot to domestic production of AI > HBM ...

The reality is, that unless competition ( as in China ) does not start scaling beyond the expected levels, the big 3 have no reason to scale too fast.

And money is not the issue ... have you seen their revenue (and net profit!! ) numbers. A few billions is peanuts for them at this point. They simply do not want to scale too fast because that means less milking ... Memory demand is not going to away. When people talk about the AI bubble popping, its more in terms of the stock market. The product is here and not going away.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was signing up for Hetzner years ago and it asked me to upload my passport to use their service. I don't really understand what bothers you so much about providing a photo of a "passport" (if you are an European citizen they require a ID card) but credit card info didn't registered as a concern worth noting. Can you explain what is the difference?

Credit card is a largely fixed risk of financial loss, with some legal safeguards for recovery, and the ability to get a replacement card with a different number. Passport carries an open long-term risk of impersonation and you can't just get a new passport because some company has a copy. Just the financial side of that risk can have much greater impact. Unless a company has a legal requirement to "know your custome…

Couldn’t have put it better myself. Even with payment processors, most they ask for is SSN and business EIN.

When I read about the WireCard scandal, the KYC stuff sent to them over the years is probably in the hands of foreign intelligence already. That’s what gave me pause.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#144
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how's that work? do they operate them on the buyer's behalf?

It's old servers they have already written off and would otherwise decommission. You're basically only paying for power and network traffic.

i'm looking at the site and it seems they don't have this in US

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#145
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it ramping up a new fab takes a couple of years and several billion dollars. The last time they ramped up production prices had crashed back down by the the time the new fab was fully up and running, so this time they're betting that the scarcity will resolve itself like it did last time.

They are not ramping up.

I'm trying to understand the intent of your comment.

The person you're replying to explained why they're not ramping up, and you replied "They are not ramping up", which seems awfully silly.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#146
post #81

Everything is getting stupider by the day. Tech is killing itself until this idiotic bubble bursts. Then we'll be in a decade of drought again like 2001

Just like the energy industry is killing itself until this idiotic bubble bursts again. Can't wait till oil / solar prices implode and there's a decade of drought where no one users energy for a long time.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These prices have absolute nothing to do anymore with memory prices. Do not forget that Hetzner already increased the setup fees by a factor of 4x before to compensate for the price. And also servers getting price increases. It seems they have shifted by reducing the setup fees, and increasing the monthly costs. As this generates more revenue. And its easy to prove this... AX42 ... Its 8700GE that has gone from 65 Eu…

> It seems they have shifted by reducing the setup fees, and increasing the monthly costs. Monthly costs have gone up as well. Payroll has seen significant increases in Germany, construction has exploded far beyond inflation and, most importantly, electricity prices are still ridiculous due to merit-order and the refusal of splitting up Germany into multiple power pricing regions.

I remember the price increase that Hetzner did during 2022 because of the invasion in Ukraine. The said they will adjust the prices down when the electricity price reduced.

Guess what? I am paying as a consumer about the same price as before 2022. Did Hetzner change their price down? Remember, the industrial price also dropped (and they also build out a large solar plant). No ...

Ok, inflation? But those price increases already covered part of that... Just saying, its not been the first price increase that happened. There have been multiple ones that Hetzner did over the years. Some flew under people radars.

> Payroll has seen significant increases in Germany,

Yea, we have seen nothing of that increase... O, wait, they reduce our income because the social security increase their costs. Yay ..

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda awesome, the DDR prices will go extremely down (lower than before the bubble), and it will be spring time for self-hosted opensource models, cause people will be able to afford the hardware. We just need to wait for the peak.

> the DDR prices will go extremely down (lower than before the bubble) Why? From what I understand, Ram production is not ramping up. Even if a bubble does pop, I don't think it's even guaranteed to drop to where it was.

2005 - 2015'ish the DDR prices were artificially inflated by factory fires and such in asia. hope it's not going to repeat, need to have some excuse to drive the prices up..

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#150
Similar providers (heroku, aws) haven't increased their compute/ram/ec2/dyno prices recently; why is Hetzner's increase so massive (> 3-4x) - wouldn't increased hardware costs affect everyone else too?
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