This is Apple commoditizing LLMs while keeping control of the UX. They are a hardware company and will keep selling the best machine for AI use. Well done.
Does “the best machine for AI use” apply here considering these models are still server-side?
Apple Foundation Models
81–90 of 244 posts
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Benedict Evans may be right after all; frontier models look more and more like telecom companies in the 90s. Billions and billions of investment in infrastructure while others further up the stack captured all the value.
In spite of their deeper pockets, massive datacenters, colosal amounts of user data, and hundreds of thousands of top developers, even Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, and Google are well behind. I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous)
Truly fascinating ecosystem and community in general, as experiences differ so wildly. Anthropic's models seems far behind OpenAI to me, especially when you get into "Pro" territory, and there doesn't seem to be any worthy competition to Pro Mode available at all.
And this is said with someone who use both platforms, and spend a lot of my day interacting with agents and LLMs in various ways. The interesting part is that probably so do you too, and probably your experience and what you share lines up with what you experience! Yet we come away with basically opposite takeaways :) I don't think either of us are wrong either, somehow.
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
In spite of their deeper pockets, massive datacenters, colosal amounts of user data, and hundreds of thousands of top developers, even Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, and Google are well behind. I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous)
> I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous) Truly fascinating ecosystem and community in general, as experiences differ so wildly. Anthropic's models seems far behind OpenAI to me, especially when you get into "Pro" territory, and there doesn't se…
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because that's not what the article is about; this is about a unified API for the _app developers_ to access different kind of models. That API has no user-facing components, and has no influence over UX of what the end-users are interacting with. The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly.
> The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly. That's the point! That's the whole "white-labeling" part, and what the commentator earlier is talking about. You're very close in understanding the context here!
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous) Truly fascinating ecosystem and community in general, as experiences differ so wildly. Anthropic's models seems far behind OpenAI to me, especially when you get into "Pro" territory, and there doesn't se…
When you say "Pro" territory, do you include Fable?
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly. That's the point! That's the whole "white-labeling" part, and what the commentator earlier is talking about. You're very close in understanding the context here!
I’m sorry, so your position now is that “being completely invisible to the users” is “controlling the UX”?
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
In spite of their deeper pockets, massive datacenters, colosal amounts of user data, and hundreds of thousands of top developers, even Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, and Google are well behind. I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous)
> I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous) Truly fascinating ecosystem and community in general, as experiences differ so wildly. Anthropic's models seems far behind OpenAI to me, especially when you get into "Pro" territory, and there doesn't se…
I've noticed that depending on how you talk to it, you get wildly different outputs. This seems to happen less with Opus: it mostly understand what I want. GPT is often a bit too literal.
Just my two cents.
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#88How can you practically use this in software if you're to deploy this to users? Asking a user to create and enter their own API key is a bar too high for good UX.
Right now for allihat.com I just let people use the Apple model locally if you don't feel like using the claude key. And my conversions to paying user shot up like 3x! But it really isn't a replacement obviously to claude. I was hoping Apple would make proxying to Claude some kind of thing they do for me so I also don't have to proxy to my own server just to try and manage API to Claude usage.
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#89While I'm happy with Apple introducing this abstraction. my main concern was with local models. I'd love using Gemma4 as an example. but thinking of a user. if 10 Apps each uses same model and downloads it, the phone will be bloated. I still didn't understand if Apple provided a way for multiple apps uses same on-device model (without tricky namespaces and permissions). I didn't see anything suggesting that's the cas…
They were wrong when their on-device model was way behind. They still might be right in the long term.
While multiple app I use might need Gemma 4 E4B, I use dozens of apps and app devs can choose from hundreds of models. A shared cache might reduce size a little when there's overlap, but the core problem still exists. If each app chooses a model disk and memory-swapping explode.
Its probably be better for device manufacturers to bake in a default. I'm not proposing they limit you from using others, but one shared default might be best developer/user experience for 99% of apps.
- Being warm in memory is the single biggest perf speedup you can get, and a default is much more likely to be warm.
- "Best model" is usually "best model for this device" given both RAM and compute. A developer can't test every device but Apple can/will.
- Each model needs to be optimized for the hardware (what's running on ANE, what's running on Metal, what's running on CPU). The default gets optimized.
- If you need custom model, a Lora is probably best (30MB, benefits from all of the above)
You could say the default should be swappable, but that's more a linux ideal than an Apple one so I doubt we ever see that. Plus there are real downsides: intentional or not, prompts end up optimized to the model they are developed for, so swapping the default system model would degrade every app.
Re: Apple Foundation Models
#90This is Apple commoditizing LLMs while keeping control of the UX. They are a hardware company and will keep selling the best machine for AI use. Well done.
Does “the best machine for AI use” apply here considering these models are still server-side?
From a user’s perspective, it doesn’t matter.