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Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

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Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard anybody who is assured that it was a nazi salute after "doing their own research on the internet" who did not already hate Musk and wish desperately for this to be a nazi salute. The evidence for this conclusion that I have seen boils down to "Musk is a nazi therefore this was a nazi salute", because somehow the exact same kind of actions can be deemed with certainty to not be nazi salutes when perfo…

Sounds like the converse is true actually--I haven't seen anyone who isn't a Musk stan (or anti-semite) say it's not a Nazi salute.

I just mentioned the ADL saying it wasn't. Are you asserting without evidence that they are "Musk stan" anti-semites, or are you pretending this is too complicated for you to follow?

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you notice a police officer is only ever arresting people of a certain race, you can suspect he’s a racist - even if they actually did commit the crimes. Having an obsession with Israel, focusing only on them for things done by other countries as well in the same situation, exaggerating what they are doing, and demonising them is antisemitic. The Overton window has shifted so far that you don’t even realise how it…

> If you notice a police officer is only ever arresting people of a certain race, you can suspect he’s a racist - even if they actually did commit the crimes. Ridiculous comparison. Police are obligated to act impartially, private individuals are not. Expecting regular people to give every political matter equal attention is absurd.

You are not obligated to be impartial, but when you are partial I may suspect that you are biased.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the experts debunked that disinformation. Yes I remembered correctly https://x.com/ADL/status/1881474892022919403

The ADL is not a trustworthy source about what is and isn't anti-Semitism. Maybe they do point out actual incidents of anti-Semitism and true anti-Semites (which still exist in large numbers.) but they're unflinching support for Israel (a leading world cause of anti-Semitism) calls all their messaging into question.

When they go the other way and say something is not a nazi salute, that is pretty trustworthy. Especially of someone who they are quite critical of for other reasons.

Much more trustworthy than some internet crackpot conspiracy theorist, or the "trust me bro" people and groups whose political alignments compel them to also claim that Corey Booker's "nazi salute" wasn't, or that this guy's nazi tattoo is not a big deal, wouldn't you think?

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#564
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll direct you to the Nat Turner rebellion [1]. Or the practice of "necklacing" in apartheid South AFrica [2]. Or the Mau Mau rebellion [3]. As Nelson Mandela put it [4]: > A freedom fighter learns the hard way that it is the oppressor who defines the nature of the struggle, and the oppressed is often left no recourse but to use methods that mirror those of the oppressor. At a certain point, one can only fight fire…

> October 7 was the culmination of (then) 75 years of [...] Nothing you might say after this can justify massacring, kidnapping or raping civilians. > the denial of clean water, the denial of electricity This is pretty unreasonable framing. Israel withdrew from Gaza, leaving behind valuable modern infrastructure like desalination plants, and then provided free water and electricity even to an enemy who constantly att…

"For terrorizing Israel" is "pretty unreasonable framing".

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you notice a police officer is only ever arresting people of a certain race, you can suspect he’s a racist - even if they actually did commit the crimes. Ridiculous comparison. Police are obligated to act impartially, private individuals are not. Expecting regular people to give every political matter equal attention is absurd.

You are not obligated to be impartial, but when you are partial I may suspect that you are biased.

If by biased you mean I care more about certain issues than others, then you're correct.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#566
post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that many people, like me, now hear "antisemitic" as "anti Israel" and assume it's a politically motivated slur without justification. This is not good. As racism and actual antisemitism continues to be very real, any conflating or exaggeration of a real problem diminishes people's willingness to address the real problems.

If you notice a police officer is only ever arresting people of a certain race, you can suspect he’s a racist - even if they actually did commit the crimes. Having an obsession with Israel, focusing only on them for things done by other countries as well in the same situation, exaggerating what they are doing, and demonising them is antisemitic. The Overton window has shifted so far that you don’t even realise how it…

This is a huge amount of Whataboutism mixed with exactly the problem I mention, which is moving the definition of antisemitism and putting words in the mouth of the speaker to hit that definition.

To pass your test, which is common out there, whenever Israel is criticized we must also: prove that we care about EVERY cause in the world; acknowledge every other conflict in the world; compare against every aggressive country in the world; declare support for Israel's "right to exist" and "right to defend itself" (which are nothing by proxies for aggressive expansionism); declare our criticism is limited to certain actions; denounce every opponent of Israel to an excessive degree; and make caveats that we have Jewish friends.

This is nonsense and this is exactly the nonsense that Israeli propaganda encourages as it suppresses criticism of Israel.

Everyday people talk in generalizations about countries, people, companies, etc... in exactly the way you claim they don't. Israeli supporters especially do it all the time, especially when talking about Iran. The hypocritical double standard is incredibly obvious to anyone not blinkered by pro-Israeli and pro-Zionist propaganda or self interest.

To overlap the Israel & Jewish issues: on Israel and also antisemitism, the Overton window in the west (especially US, UK & Germany) is located well inside the pro-Israeli, pro-Jewish side of the spectrum, especially if you compare it to what you can get away with saying about Muslims, Muslim countries and people of colour. Just think about what would happen if somebody said that in order to stop Israel committing genocide they should be bombed back to the stone age. They'd not only be uproar but that person would be driven out of their job and never serve political office in the US. But that's exactly what the US president and head of the armed forces said. The uproar was very one sided.

There is a prejudice, but it's opposite to what you think it is.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not obligated to be impartial, but when you are partial I may suspect that you are biased.

If by biased you mean I care more about certain issues than others, then you're correct.

Sure, and if the issues you care more about are the ones where Jews are being accused of doing something wrong, I may suspect what specific bias you have.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#568
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is shameful about the "military stuff"? Isn't that's what is protecting you from your neighbors and their patron?

Recent events have taken ‘protection’ to a whole new level that’s extremely controversial. It seems unlikely that you don’t know that.

Sorry for not being able to parse "military stuff" with the same precision as you.

Especially since there are plenty of people who post here who won't work on defense-related activities despite availing themselves of their protection.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#569
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you notice a police officer is only ever arresting people of a certain race, you can suspect he’s a racist - even if they actually did commit the crimes. Having an obsession with Israel, focusing only on them for things done by other countries as well in the same situation, exaggerating what they are doing, and demonising them is antisemitic. The Overton window has shifted so far that you don’t even realise how it…

This is a huge amount of Whataboutism mixed with exactly the problem I mention, which is moving the definition of antisemitism and putting words in the mouth of the speaker to hit that definition. To pass your test, which is common out there, whenever Israel is criticized we must also: prove that we care about EVERY cause in the world; acknowledge every other conflict in the world; compare against every aggressive co…

[flagged]

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#570
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a huge amount of Whataboutism mixed with exactly the problem I mention, which is moving the definition of antisemitism and putting words in the mouth of the speaker to hit that definition. To pass your test, which is common out there, whenever Israel is criticized we must also: prove that we care about EVERY cause in the world; acknowledge every other conflict in the world; compare against every aggressive co…

[flagged]

You're kinda proving my point here. Criticizing Israel is criticism of a country, not a people. Racism or antisemitism is not a factor in criticism of Israel unless there is proof of that as motivation. Actual proof, not a bad faith assumption, which is what unfortunately actually happens. Many people purposely come up with reasons conflate the two to use bad faith judgements & declarations which can then be used to devalue legitimate criticism.
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