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A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

markhorrell.com

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Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#11

Post by casumel »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

I did Cerro El Plomo in January and it was a very blissful experience. Barely any people and no phones. Can highly recommend.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#12

Post by dwd »

ofrzeta wrote: post #9
chabes wrote: post #7

The mountain should have never been bolted in the first place. The debate that it is an established route and thus should be left up comes from a place of entitlement. If you can’t climb the mountain, what are you even doing there? There are plenty of mountains in the area that can be climbed instead. Same can be said about the Dawn Wall of El Cap. Harding should have never bolted it. Removing his bolt ladder was the…

What kind of ethics is it to decide that these walls must be free climbed? If you want to do that, fine, go ahead and ignore the bolts.

There is the "Leave No Trace" principle where you do not leave anything behind.

This is why you see in trad climbing the lead will place cams and nuts, while the last in the group on that pitch retrieves them.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#13

Post by blackjack_ »

ofrzeta wrote: post #9
chabes wrote: post #7

The mountain should have never been bolted in the first place. The debate that it is an established route and thus should be left up comes from a place of entitlement. If you can’t climb the mountain, what are you even doing there? There are plenty of mountains in the area that can be climbed instead. Same can be said about the Dawn Wall of El Cap. Harding should have never bolted it. Removing his bolt ladder was the…

What kind of ethics is it to decide that these walls must be free climbed? If you want to do that, fine, go ahead and ignore the bolts.

If you are being serious; read the tower for much more context.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#14

Post by ofrzeta »

dwd wrote: post #12
ofrzeta wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of ethics is it to decide that these walls must be free climbed? If you want to do that, fine, go ahead and ignore the bolts.

There is the "Leave No Trace" principle where you do not leave anything behind. This is why you see in trad climbing the lead will place cams and nuts, while the last in the group on that pitch retrieves them.

Sure there's this principle but this just moves the need for justification. Humans leave their traces everywhere so why this principle for mountains? There are many traces that should be removed such as hydroelectric power stations, river straightening and so on. Is this whataboutism? I just think a few bolts in a mountain don't do much harm and as a casual observer of these mountains you won't even notice. Also I am very much for "leaving no traces" in the sense that everyone picks up their trash.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#18

Post by arethuza »

ofrzeta wrote: post #9
chabes wrote: post #7

The mountain should have never been bolted in the first place. The debate that it is an established route and thus should be left up comes from a place of entitlement. If you can’t climb the mountain, what are you even doing there? There are plenty of mountains in the area that can be climbed instead. Same can be said about the Dawn Wall of El Cap. Harding should have never bolted it. Removing his bolt ladder was the…

What kind of ethics is it to decide that these walls must be free climbed? If you want to do that, fine, go ahead and ignore the bolts.

I don't think it's just a matter of ethics - some legal entity owns these mountains (park authority of some kind?) and drilling holes and placing bolts done without the permission of the owner sounds like vandalism to me.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#19

Post by rob74 »

My first reaction to the title was "how can a mountain be controversial?!", and, even after reading the article, the title still sounds wrong to me. I mean, a mountain is a mountain, it just... exists in a very undisputable way. What climbers did or didn't do on that mountain can be controversial, but not the mountain itself.
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