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A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

cnn.com

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Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#301

Post by nradov »

kruffalon wrote: post #174
gorjusborg wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important distinction: what is good for ecology is not necessarily good for economy. If we need unbounded growth to jeep our economic system to function, its the economic system that is wrong, not nature.

Capitalist economy. Economies can exist in many different ways. At its core it is just a way to describe how we move resources between ourselves and that can be done in many, many ways.

What are the other ways that are proven to work over the long term at scale?

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#302

Post by [deleted] »

harrisi wrote: post #172
awongh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since covid I’ve actually become less convinced of this. Yes there were national interests at play and there was a lot of general chaos. But. The level of international coordination with vaccine rollouts and agreements between countries was way more than I had initially expected. Of course this feeling depends on what your own baseline expectations are. My takeaway was that if the conditions arise that we all decide…

Millions of people died when a possible solution of "hey, everyone, let's stay inside for a couple weeks" could've possibly effectively eradicated the virus does not seem like a great example of humanity's ability to cope with imminent global existential threats. The potential solution(s) to the massive brick wall we're speeding towards are far more inconvenient than "everyone just hang out for a minute." It's radica…

[deleted]

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#304

Post by nozzlegear »

skeledrew wrote: post #125
gadders wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act as if reacting to global warming is cost-free. It would have a drastic impact on the economy and people's standard of living, especially in the 3rd world.

You act as if NOT reacting to global warming is cost-free. It WILL have a drastic impact on the economy and people's standard of living, especially in the 3rd world. Yes I literally copied your comment, added a single word and modified another; it's that easy to rebut.

It's a bad rebuttal. What can an individual do besides vote? I already drive an electric car, I vote for candidates who promise to fight climate change, and I've been a vegetarian for over 7 years. I'm about maxed out on my negative carbon foot printing, so getting anxious over stories like this seems unproductive at best. I can't be worried about that shit.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#305

Post by dahinds »

blindriver wrote: post #282
dahinds wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot to unpack here: - the warming in the Medieval Warming Period is modest compared to projected modern warming - The Alps are currently "warm enough" to be crossed without special gear much of the year. Otzi was found wearing multiple layers of hides and furs that would have provided good protection against the elements and is supposed to have been killed in late spring/early summer, not the depths of wint…

Nothing you wrote refutes anything that I said. Comparing actual historical temperatures to speculative temperatures where no models have been accurate isn't science.

Here's a comparison of the Medieval Warm Period with recent temperatures (so no model based speculation).

https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=31

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#306

Post by DangitBobby »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #299
queenkjuul wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poor and middle class don't own the factories, oil fields, and politicians that are perpetuating the problem

Yes but they still make choices that reveal their preferences.

Which is why it's a coordination problem that requires a motivated leader like the government instead of throwing our hands up and saying "gee it sure sucks that everyone has revealed they like will buy the products on the shelves".

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#307

Post by coldbrewed »

lmaoguy wrote: post #303

Quick pay more taxes! That will stop it!

HN comment guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#308

Post by AlotOfReading »

giantg2 wrote: post #286
no_wizard wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that simple. For instance, consumers want fast and high speed rail and light rail in cities, yet the federal government is still subsidizing hundreds of billions of dollars to car centric projects rather than allowing municipalities and state governments to have control over those funds they come with strings attached that force them to choose car centric options. Affordable housing is another example. Consu…

"For instance, consumers want fast and high speed rail and light rail in cities, yet the federal government is still subsidizing hundreds of billions of dollars to car centric projects rather than allowing municipalities and state governments to have control over those funds they come with strings attached that force them to choose car centric options." Oftentimes that comes from road taxes, so it's really car use su…

    Oftentimes that comes from road taxes, so it's really car use subsidizing the car-centric projects.
The various vehicle taxes haven't fully covered roadway expansion and maintenance for years. The national average is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of costs, I believe.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#309

Post by snowwrestler »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #177
yoyohello13 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole comment rests on a very big assumption that these rates will never recover. Just because you can fit a trend line doesn’t mean the projections will pan out. It could just as easily be the case that once population starts meaningfully decreasing, the opportunity cost of children will also decrease and fertility rates will recover. This happens all the time in nature. Our population absolutely exploded over…

When will the trend recover? When civilization falls to the point that nobody can make birth control pills, if not before.

Birth rates auto-recover because the denominator is the entire population, and old people die off first.

As long as some people are still having kids, the birth rate will eventually reach replacement rate.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#310

Post by jbxntuehineoh »

Avamander wrote: post #216
deadbabe wrote: post #14

Could we put underwater data centers there to reheat the waters?

No. AMOC is petawatt-scale, nine orders of magnitude beyond our reach.

hmmmm the tsar bomba was ~200 PJ, so obviously the answer is to nuke the ocean every few minutes
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