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The rich aren't your role models

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Re: The rich aren't your role models

#41

Post by YZF »

dataflow wrote: post #16

Mostly off-topic, but I've wondered, is there a measure of wealth that involves first liquidating everything? And what is that for Musk? I don't find it meaningful to say someone has a net worth of $X if they can't actually liquidate their assets and pay off their liabilities to produce $X.

Presumably Elon can borrow a lot of money against his paper money. That would be more typical than trying to liquidate. But yes, there is no way he can actually fully cash out on his net wealth, and he probably wouldn't even know what to do with it if he could.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#42

Post by fzeroracer »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #31
fzeroracer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people have been speculating will happen with the rise of the K-shaped economy. An economy where a smaller and smaller number of consumers are responsible for more and more of consumption. I think the problem is a sort of self-correcting one though because when the cuts start to bleed deep enough that people can no longer afford food or basic amenities that's when people start to get violent. Unfortunate…

That premise is kind of false though. Food stamps are very generous, much to the chagrin of the borderline tax contributors. I think we'll just see benefits slowly ramp up until most people are on benefits, with lots of consternation around government waste along the way.

Food stamps are definitely not 'very generous', speaking from personal historical experience. And food stamps can't pay for health insurance, rent or car bills.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#43

Post by happytoexplain »

fzeroracer wrote: post #7

I wonder what it would take to shake America of the whole 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire' problem. At this point I assume even a hard economic crash pioneered and gleefully supported by the rich isn't enough of a cold water splash. I think that mentality is too locked in for a large subset of Americans. Musk has been increasingly getting more and more rancid and that doesn't seem to deter his supporters at all.

Nothing short of mass violence, which should not and will not happen. I.e. we're absolutely fucked in the foreseeable future. Maybe in a century something massive enough will happen, god help those living at the time.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#44

Post by [deleted] »

YZF wrote: post #41
dataflow wrote: post #16

Mostly off-topic, but I've wondered, is there a measure of wealth that involves first liquidating everything? And what is that for Musk? I don't find it meaningful to say someone has a net worth of $X if they can't actually liquidate their assets and pay off their liabilities to produce $X.

Presumably Elon can borrow a lot of money against his paper money. That would be more typical than trying to liquidate. But yes, there is no way he can actually fully cash out on his net wealth, and he probably wouldn't even know what to do with it if he could.

[deleted]

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#45

Post by YZF »

mrtomservo wrote: post #9

I wonder if unchecked capital accumulation combined with cutting the social safety net and major public works will lead to commerce without customers: An economy built on consumption where nobody has the money to consume.

There is no economy without customers/consumption. Elon Musk's SPCX are worth zero if nobody wants to send anything to space and nobody can send anything to space if nobody has any money. Debt can fuel consumption to some degree but that has limits. Capital accumulation on its own does not impact the economy. You can put the number $10000000T against Elon's name and it will not change the economy at all. What changes the economy is how this money is deployed. Economies are not zero sum games and money is not a fixed quantity. That's not to say this is meaningless but it also doesn't mean that Elon now has your dollars.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#46

Post by fzeroracer »

boznz wrote: post #18
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted it and I don’t usually vote up stories but this is exactly what we need to see. As reference my article that said more or less the same as this article, was #1 on the front page for almost a whole day in 2024: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39569747 I’m excited to see the sea change in political sentiment and how people are talking, so I’m 100% here for it.

This is a technical site (or was at one point in time), I for one would be happy with zero of this shit.

This technical site for years had a large contingent of users fellating every action Musk did (just look at the cyber truck thread here all those years ago). Now criticism of Musk and his immense amounts of often ill-gotten wealth is tantamount to partisanship.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#47

Post by ggm »

I enjoyed seeing this refer to the Phaistos disc, because I have just come back from Heraklion and saw it in the flesh (clay)

A reminder that deciphering Linear B was the work of a number of people and a brilliant book by John Chadwick discusses the statistics, and the application of numerical/statistical methods to the analysis That Chadwick and Ventris used, from the ground breaking work of Alice Klober.

The problem with Linear A and the Phaistos disc, is that there isn't enough material to apply these kinds of methods. I believe most Linear A is tally records.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#48

Post by fzeroracer »

derektank wrote: post #29
fzeroracer wrote: post #7

I wonder what it would take to shake America of the whole 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire' problem. At this point I assume even a hard economic crash pioneered and gleefully supported by the rich isn't enough of a cold water splash. I think that mentality is too locked in for a large subset of Americans. Musk has been increasingly getting more and more rancid and that doesn't seem to deter his supporters at all.

One doesn’t have to imagine themselves a future millionaire to be wary of granting the state the ability to confiscate private property. There’s a very real risk that they’ll come for the modern equivalent of the kulaks next.

This would be fair...except said wary individuals have had zero problem giving the state the ability to confiscate private property as long as it appeals directly to their emotions. We've seen cheers from those same types as the government sends jack-booted thugs to kick in doors and destroy property.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#49

Post by sharemywin »

YZF wrote: post #45
mrtomservo wrote: post #9

I wonder if unchecked capital accumulation combined with cutting the social safety net and major public works will lead to commerce without customers: An economy built on consumption where nobody has the money to consume.

There is no economy without customers/consumption. Elon Musk's SPCX are worth zero if nobody wants to send anything to space and nobody can send anything to space if nobody has any money. Debt can fuel consumption to some degree but that has limits. Capital accumulation on its own does not impact the economy. You can put the number $10000000T against Elon's name and it will not change the economy at all. What changes…

a large % of wealth is a made up number. if everyone runs to the door to sell an asset it becomes close to worthless pretty quickly.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#50

Post by Rzor »

boznz wrote: post #13

Neither are the politicians, or the influencers, or Hollywood, they all have an end-game, a message or something to sell, none of these people are better than you, yet people pick someone and agrees with everything they say. The world has lost the ability to critically think.

>The world has lost the ability to critically think.

Bold of you to assume it ever did.

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