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The rich aren't your role models

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Re: The rich aren't your role models

#31

Post by Ferret7446 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #15
mrtomservo wrote: post #9

I wonder if unchecked capital accumulation combined with cutting the social safety net and major public works will lead to commerce without customers: An economy built on consumption where nobody has the money to consume.

This is what people have been speculating will happen with the rise of the K-shaped economy. An economy where a smaller and smaller number of consumers are responsible for more and more of consumption. I think the problem is a sort of self-correcting one though because when the cuts start to bleed deep enough that people can no longer afford food or basic amenities that's when people start to get violent. Unfortunate…

That premise is kind of false though. Food stamps are very generous, much to the chagrin of the borderline tax contributors.

I think we'll just see benefits slowly ramp up until most people are on benefits, with lots of consternation around government waste along the way.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#32

Post by AndrewKemendo »

boznz wrote: post #18
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted it and I don’t usually vote up stories but this is exactly what we need to see. As reference my article that said more or less the same as this article, was #1 on the front page for almost a whole day in 2024: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39569747 I’m excited to see the sea change in political sentiment and how people are talking, so I’m 100% here for it.

This is a technical site (or was at one point in time), I for one would be happy with zero of this shit.

You can’t separate the two, technology accumulates productivity, but the more important point is how the productivity is distributed

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#34

Post by zephen »

thegrim33 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

> A completely partisan, hate-filled/inducing rant

Those of us who live in reality might or might not find it a bit over the top, but fully understand that if a relatively accurate description of reality, hyperbolic or not, appears to induce hate, then it is, in fact, reality itself that induces the hate.

Your take on this is not at all surprising, given your risible description of the modern conservative:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48508905

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#35

Post by juanani »

Empact wrote: post #24
fzeroracer wrote: post #7

I wonder what it would take to shake America of the whole 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire' problem. At this point I assume even a hard economic crash pioneered and gleefully supported by the rich isn't enough of a cold water splash. I think that mentality is too locked in for a large subset of Americans. Musk has been increasingly getting more and more rancid and that doesn't seem to deter his supporters at all.

Leftists ask “why don’t Americans hate capitalism,” while Americans live in one of the most prosperous and advanced societies in the world.

[dead]

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#36

Post by [deleted] »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #27
ynac wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to say, the headline alone had me reaching for the pointy hat. Wonder if it was the statistical anomalie or the content that got the parent comment to post?

I think people are starting to actually realize that they have been scammed and what Zinn, Chomsky, Bookchin, Sagan et al have been shouting about was always right

[deleted]

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#37

Post by zephen »

waterTanuki wrote: post #25
thegrim33 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

> A completely partisan, hate-filled/inducing rant, posted by an account which effectively makes this type of thing 50% of the type of content they submit. Yet the algorithm has it at the very top of HN. You realize you're making a political statement in and of itself? There's no such thing as enlightened centrism.

He's not a centrist in any case:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48508905

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#38

Post by YZF »

What matters isn't Elon Musk (or any other person's) net worth. What matters is how this money is being deployed. If Elon has $1T in his basement and he's not doing things with this money then the net outcome is the removal of this money from the economy which is deflationary - makes your money go farther. If Elon invests it in things that produce broader value (e.g. create jobs, improve productivity, etc.) then it can be a net positive. It's not about the amount- it's about how it is deployed. One rich person (or country e.g.) can be your "oppressor" (more likely in non-democratic countries) and another could be your benefactor.

Making money is the incentive we have in capitalism for individuals to create value. Capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best system we know of. In systems where we don't allow people to become rich (in theory) we typically produce less value and end up with most of the value concentrated into one dictator (e.g. Russia, China, Saudi Arabia). We can argue about taxation etc. but fundamentally this is the system that has proved to be the best for everyone. We can argue about checks and balances as well but again in practice having rich people and western democracy correlates with better outcomes for everyone historically. If you propose we get rid of this system you need to make a reasonable argument for an alternative that is better. If you're arguing that life isn't always fair and luck plays a role- well yeah.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#39

Post by frasermarlow »

wyrdcurt wrote: post #23
thegrim33 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Partisan? I saw no mention of any political party. Hate-filled? Are you sure you don't just disagree? Not arguing that it deserves to be on top or anything, but I thought HN encourages substantive commentary over complaints about the algorithm. Personally I think it's obscene for any individual to be a trillionaire, and in my experience, that's not necessarily partisan; there are many people across the political spec…

I agree that a system in which we reward one man for building a vast loss-making empire is fundamentally broken and will eventually need to correct course. Elon Musk is not the problem, the irrational valuations of his (and his team's) work are. This said, the article is not terribly articulate in it's arguments and clings to an anachronistic view of how capital markets currently allocate wealth (and I am deliberately avoiding saying "how capital markets work" because I can't see this model working too long past this current wave of massive hyped up IPOs). Also, just to throw spice into the conversation, I bought into the IPO and cashed out above $160. So thanks for that.

Re: The rich aren't your role models

#40

Post by zephen »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #31
fzeroracer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people have been speculating will happen with the rise of the K-shaped economy. An economy where a smaller and smaller number of consumers are responsible for more and more of consumption. I think the problem is a sort of self-correcting one though because when the cuts start to bleed deep enough that people can no longer afford food or basic amenities that's when people start to get violent. Unfortunate…

That premise is kind of false though. Food stamps are very generous, much to the chagrin of the borderline tax contributors. I think we'll just see benefits slowly ramp up until most people are on benefits, with lots of consternation around government waste along the way.

> Food stamps are very generous

Certainly not in Texas.

A single person, who makes $910/month before taxes, rent, transportation, clothes, and insurance, could spend a lot of time and energy on paperwork, and then net $24/month.

https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/snap...

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