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What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

iza.ac

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Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#61

Post by goosejuice »

msla wrote: post #15
supertroop wrote: post #11

Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.

> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.

Maybe in some cases. There's a pretty clear distinction in quality from some "gruyere" made in say Wisconsin and a AOP gruyere like 1655. Meanwhile there's a stupid amount of good alpine cheese in the US that aren't named gruyere, like alpha tolman that are happy just saying it's gruyere like.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#63

Post by fluoridation »

ciupicri wrote: post #55
fluoridation wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of a word is to convey meaning with a short string of sounds. The meaning of a word referring to a dish would normally describe the taste of the dish and what it's made of in general terms, because as you've pointed out, recipes are subject to individual variation. To say that a restaurant should not serve a dish called "carbonara" made with French cheese to me sounds similar to saying that an Italian carpe…

Because not all cheese is the same.

Your point being?

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#64

Post by [deleted] »

mjhay wrote: post #38
MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recipes go back millennia, and seasonings were also common, but varied by region. It’s easy to grow your own herbs a, or even forage for some things. I don’t think it’s true that most food sucked at any point, except for people in exceptional circumstances.

Recipes were the province of the wealthy. The average person would have had a very repetitive, bland, and potentially malnourishing diet. They might have had some herbs or even foraged like you say, that still is very bland and boring compared to what we’re used to.

[deleted]

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#65

Post by SugarReflex »

armenarmen wrote: post #59
SugarReflex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just asking - in your mind what is the difference between a chicken burger and a chicken sandwich? We Aussies argue with yanks that a burger is made by the bun and a sandwich is made by the two slices of bread.

American here, minced/ground chicken and I breaded would make it a burger. Otherwise it’s a sandwich. Provided it is not the traditional recipe from Chickenburg of course

I prefer our definition, but I appreciate your specificity.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#66

Post by bobthepanda »

zahlman wrote: post #25
bobthepanda wrote: post #6

I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…

> or example you had early Scottish shortbread primarily using rice flour because it was cheaper at that time. What era of history are we talking about here? Would it have been transported as flour, or ground locally?

While I don't have the exact details of transport and whatnot, much of that rice came from the Carolinas https://inlandrice.charlestoncounty.org/economics.html

Generally speaking, rice is a lot higher yield per acre, and also, the east coast doesn't have particularly good wheat growing.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#67

Post by grebc »

retrac wrote: post #56
mjhay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recipes were the province of the wealthy. The average person would have had a very repetitive, bland, and potentially malnourishing diet. They might have had some herbs or even foraged like you say, that still is very bland and boring compared to what we’re used to.

From what I have read the diet of people in classical antiquity was only terrible for the very poor. Most people in ancient Rome got to, at least rarely, eat honey cakes and fresh fruit and dried fish and maybe once a year at festivals even a small chunk of meat. They grew chives, dill, garlic, asparagus, radish, parsley, thyme, mustard, cumin and many other spices. And they made vinegar and olive oil and garum (ferm…

The very poor far outnumber the wealthy.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#68

Post by bobthepanda »

retrac wrote: post #56
mjhay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recipes were the province of the wealthy. The average person would have had a very repetitive, bland, and potentially malnourishing diet. They might have had some herbs or even foraged like you say, that still is very bland and boring compared to what we’re used to.

From what I have read the diet of people in classical antiquity was only terrible for the very poor. Most people in ancient Rome got to, at least rarely, eat honey cakes and fresh fruit and dried fish and maybe once a year at festivals even a small chunk of meat. They grew chives, dill, garlic, asparagus, radish, parsley, thyme, mustard, cumin and many other spices. And they made vinegar and olive oil and garum (ferm…

one thing to note is that while they may have consumed it they probably weren't making it. Particularly for urban dwellers, kitchens were very rudimentary if you even had one.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#69

Post by yen223 »

SugarReflex wrote: post #54
yen223 wrote: post #48

If I ordered a chicken burger and got a chicken sandwich, I would be a bit miffed. I think there's an element of expectation-setting when we're talking about authenticity. Personally, I wouldn't sweat authenticity too much. There's excellent food to be had by mixing and remixing dishes.

Just asking - in your mind what is the difference between a chicken burger and a chicken sandwich? We Aussies argue with yanks that a burger is made by the bun and a sandwich is made by the two slices of bread.

I think it's that too. Burger = burger buns, sandwich = bread

I am living in Australia though so might be biased here

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#70

Post by goosejuice »

SugarReflex wrote: post #54
yen223 wrote: post #48

If I ordered a chicken burger and got a chicken sandwich, I would be a bit miffed. I think there's an element of expectation-setting when we're talking about authenticity. Personally, I wouldn't sweat authenticity too much. There's excellent food to be had by mixing and remixing dishes.

Just asking - in your mind what is the difference between a chicken burger and a chicken sandwich? We Aussies argue with yanks that a burger is made by the bun and a sandwich is made by the two slices of bread.

Well you Aussies also put hot dogs and sprinkles on white bread. So is fairy bread a sandwich and (American) hot dogs a burger and a sausage sizzle a sandwich?
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