Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.
What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
11–20 of 102 posts
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#12While it's true that you won't find published Carbonara recipes pre dating 1952, the Lazio region has had for centuries pasta dishes based on the same ingredients. And they are thoroughly documented. Both gricia and amatriciana, too other famous pasta dishes from the same region use the same cheese (pecorino) and guanciale. In fact carbonara is nothing more than a gricia with egg yolks. It just makes no sense to have…
The point of a word is to convey meaning with a short string of sounds. The meaning of a word referring to a dish would normally describe the taste of the dish and what it's made of in general terms, because as you've pointed out, recipes are subject to individual variation. To say that a restaurant should not serve a dish called "carbonara" made with French cheese to me sounds similar to saying that an Italian carpenter should not sell a mahogany table and call it "tavolo in legno", because they don't grow mahogany in Italy. Who cares where the ingredients come from if the dish tastes good?
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#13I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…
i think there’s another component to this that most food sucked. your daily food was probably bad because it had few seasonings. it was likely starch (rice/bread), and stew. you don’t need a recipe for soup, it’s boil water and throw in whatever vegetables you have on hand. maybe meat if you had it
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#14Most loud voices get obsessed with a specific definition of a dish and I think for the sake of creativity we should/would shift to using creative names to accommodate preferences.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#15Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.
> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation.
It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#16While it's true that you won't find published Carbonara recipes pre dating 1952, the Lazio region has had for centuries pasta dishes based on the same ingredients. And they are thoroughly documented. Both gricia and amatriciana, too other famous pasta dishes from the same region use the same cheese (pecorino) and guanciale. In fact carbonara is nothing more than a gricia with egg yolks. It just makes no sense to have…
But pasta alla gricia only gets you back to the 1920s; I think the one Roman pasta that goes back centuries (and is in the same clade as carbonara) is cacio e pepe.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#17Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.
> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.
I don't think snooty rules about how to make carbonara or alla gricia are actually driving up prices. In the case of cacio e pepe, the snooty recipe is also the cheapest (it's just trickier to pull off.)
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#18While it's true that you won't find published Carbonara recipes pre dating 1952, the Lazio region has had for centuries pasta dishes based on the same ingredients. And they are thoroughly documented. Both gricia and amatriciana, too other famous pasta dishes from the same region use the same cheese (pecorino) and guanciale. In fact carbonara is nothing more than a gricia with egg yolks. It just makes no sense to have…
The point of a word is to convey meaning with a short string of sounds. The meaning of a word referring to a dish would normally describe the taste of the dish and what it's made of in general terms, because as you've pointed out, recipes are subject to individual variation. To say that a restaurant should not serve a dish called "carbonara" made with French cheese to me sounds similar to saying that an Italian carpe…
Great analogy. Why is it only food that gets this treatment? Are Italian clothes only made from Italian fabrics, grown from Italian plants? Is every part of an Italian car sourced and made completely within Italy?
But people have an irrational desire treat food as some sacred, immutable artifact.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#19I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…
i think there’s another component to this that most food sucked. your daily food was probably bad because it had few seasonings. it was likely starch (rice/bread), and stew. you don’t need a recipe for soup, it’s boil water and throw in whatever vegetables you have on hand. maybe meat if you had it
Recipes go back millennia, and seasonings were also common, but varied by region. It’s easy to grow your own herbs a, or even forage for some things.
I don’t think it’s true that most food sucked at any point, except for people in exceptional circumstances.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#20Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.
> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.
You can still choose not to buy the “authentic“ good can’t you?