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Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

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Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#81

Post by operatingthetan »

arvid-lind wrote: post #68
operatingthetan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropomorphizing them is the true "AI psychosis."

It doesn't help that these companies aren't doing anything to dampen the anxiety around AI or how it's going to eliminate everyone's jobs. I've been wondering when/if they will start making frontier models more opinionated and less sycophantic, since sycophantic AI can really create "AI psychosis". stuff like "no, you're not crazy, no one else has thought like this before", but if the AI pushes back more then people…

These companies are pitching us a magic machine that can answer all our questions and the only catch is they are extremely manipulative and controlling of us. Most people don't seem to care, for now.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#82

Post by code_biologist »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #16
SwellJoe wrote: post #8

"If you win an argument" Let me stop you right there. I am not arguing with a machine. You sound like a crazy person, when you say you are winning an argument with Claude. Claude is not my friend, I don't need it to agree with me, I don't need it to like me (it cannot like or dislike me). I give it instructions or ask it to explain things. That is the sum total of my interaction with Claude. A machine cannot "argue"…

> A machine cannot "argue" with me, it doesn't want anything nor does it have beliefs or experiences. Yup I thought that too when reading TFA but then... It gets really tiring when you see it making glaringly obvious mistakes which you point out because you don't want it to keep making the same mistakes only to be met with an answer that begins with "The point is ..." . I'm not shitting you: Anthropic models shall ha…

Once it's in this loop, Opus 4.8 digs in so aggressively it's structurally incapable of conceding a provided detail as correct, even if it's conceded and agreed with everything backing that detail. Like actually, structurally incapable. I've even baited it into arguing with itself when I've "conceded" its original concern tolling hard, and then the model needs to continue to be the "voice of reason" and it will argue against its original concern because I, the user, said it.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#83

Post by throw1234567891 »

whstl wrote: post #38
coldtea wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I give it instructions or ask it to explain things. And the author's point is that Claude Fable+ is turning those increasingly into arguments, instead of merely following them and being helpful. > A machine cannot "argue" with me, it doesn't want anything nor does it have beliefs or experiences. Who cares if the argument is informed by some felt experiences or lived state or not? That's for the philosophers. If Cla…

Exactly that. I can give an example. After watching Legal Eagle, I asked a legal-ish questions about the Bricks and Minifigs case. Claude was outdated about the case and gave me some outdated info, so I tried to update it with the info I just saw online. I updated by telling it I saw something in a LegalEagle video. It proceeded to tell me the video doesn't exist and I was hallucinating it, in a quite combative manne…

It was trained on discussions held by large egos. This one reads to me like it was trained on some inflammatory discussions from kernel mailing lists.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#84

Post by coldtea »

SwellJoe wrote: post #61
whstl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. I can give an example. After watching Legal Eagle, I asked a legal-ish questions about the Bricks and Minifigs case. Claude was outdated about the case and gave me some outdated info, so I tried to update it with the info I just saw online. I updated by telling it I saw something in a LegalEagle video. It proceeded to tell me the video doesn't exist and I was hallucinating it, in a quite combative manne…

You're misunderstanding what these models do. It is a limitation of LLMs. They don't have memory, they do not learn, they cannot learn. The sooner you let go of your desire to have them learn or remember anything, the sooner you will achieve enlightenment (or, just a peaceful life where there is no possibility of getting into an argument with a machine). If you want it to synthesize information that is not in its tra…

>Your mental model of what Claude is and does is the problem here. Short of a revolutionary breakthrough in AI techniques, the LLMs will continue to do matrix math across a huge bunch of weights that cannot change based on anything you say.

Sorry, but your mental model is wrong.

LLMs do matrix math across "a huge bunch of weights that cannot change based on anything you say", but the matrix math and results are informed (key concept here) by what you said, including the memory of what you said earlier in the discussion (and in some setups, even across discussions).

That's what a bloody prompt does.

It's entirely logic for the parent to want the LLM's matrix math + model + internal prompt, to accepts its prompt about LegalEagle and work with that, instead of arguing and giving him shit about it.

Especially since the earlier version of the model consistently worked like he wanted, and the new one consistently doesn't. He's not asking for some new unforeseen capability unknown to LLMs.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#85

Post by operatingthetan »

sigmar wrote: post #49

I like that "chat is dead" framing I heard recently because too many people are having interpersonal relations with these LLMs and want to tune their "emotions"/tone. Humanity would be in a better place if we thought of the LLMs as tools and not friends. (even though they are very good at beating a turing test)

Are the discord servers you follow dead? Mine aren't.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#86

Post by varispeed »

jampa wrote: post #20

This post needs some examples, because I have never had an interaction with Claude that made me think this way. LLMs generally have a way to "play a role" (most earlier prompt guides ask you to start with "You are a expert in a "). So maybe if you interact with it by asking questions, it might assume that it knows more than the operator and adopt that attitude?

If a model locks in in the bias in its training data, it takes time to "reason" it out of it. Sometimes it is not possible and you have to start a new session hoping it will not "fix" itself into wrong position again. I had it more often with ChatGPT than Claude.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#87

Post by throw1234567891 »

whstl wrote: post #71
SwellJoe wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misunderstanding what these models do. It is a limitation of LLMs. They don't have memory, they do not learn, they cannot learn. The sooner you let go of your desire to have them learn or remember anything, the sooner you will achieve enlightenment (or, just a peaceful life where there is no possibility of getting into an argument with a machine). If you want it to synthesize information that is not in its tra…

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about how I interacted in the messages to Claude. You also seem to be making a lot of assumptions about my understanding of the models, especially considering I just told a story :) I never said anywhere I want it to learn or remember, or that I argued with it. I just provided additional information to it (in the form of a dozen or so words, tops, per message) and it accused…

Show some examples, otherwise we're talking about interpretations.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#88

Post by comrade1234 »

I don't experience this at all. I ask it what the null-safe operator is in ruby vs JavaScript and it tells me. I ask it to remind what the continue statement is in ruby and it tells me. I ask it to refactor a Java loop to use streams and it just does it, no conversation at all.

Is it the system prompt that IntelliJ issues?

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#89

Post by coldtea »

operatingthetan wrote: post #46
whstl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. I can give an example. After watching Legal Eagle, I asked a legal-ish questions about the Bricks and Minifigs case. Claude was outdated about the case and gave me some outdated info, so I tried to update it with the info I just saw online. I updated by telling it I saw something in a LegalEagle video. It proceeded to tell me the video doesn't exist and I was hallucinating it, in a quite combative manne…

These machines do not think and they do not have a mind. We may build such a thing in the future but these do not possess those qualities. It seems as if the majority of people do not understand this, which is why the public is so confused about why they produce output like they do.

>These machines do not think and they do not have a mind

Well, they do think, in that they produce output that is indistinguisable from thinking. If a person produced the same output to the same questions, we'd considered them thinking, maybe dumb sometimes, or paranoid at others, but still a thinking person.

We can argue about the quality and depth of the thinking that LLMs do (and we can say it's much cruder than a human thinking architecture, and of course not real time), but an LLM quacks like a thinking duck and looks like a thinking duck.

Re: Why Is Claude Turning into an a**Hole?

#90

Post by whstl »

coldtea wrote: post #84
SwellJoe wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misunderstanding what these models do. It is a limitation of LLMs. They don't have memory, they do not learn, they cannot learn. The sooner you let go of your desire to have them learn or remember anything, the sooner you will achieve enlightenment (or, just a peaceful life where there is no possibility of getting into an argument with a machine). If you want it to synthesize information that is not in its tra…

> Your mental model of what Claude is and does is the problem here. Short of a revolutionary breakthrough in AI techniques, the LLMs will continue to do matrix math across a huge bunch of weights that cannot change based on anything you say. Sorry, but your mental model is wrong. LLMs do matrix math across "a huge bunch of weights that cannot change based on anything you say", but the matrix math and results are info…

Exactly that.

I provided a question, and when given an incomplete answer, I provided with more info.

It refused to accept the additional info due to limited access to Youtube.

There was nothing more than that. There were no expectations.

The hostility and the amount of assumptions here are very strange.

...almost as strange as having a website accuse me of hallucinating a video and trying to gaslight it :D

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