Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
11–20 of 22 posts
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#12Without these kinds of policies you'll just see the rise of more "new-right" parties like One Nation in Australia and Reform in the United Kingdom (yes, I am aware both are not "new", but they are newly popular). It turns out there is a sufficient amount of immigration that is disliked by the populace that they will dump support for long-standing parties in favour of those who promise change.
[deleted]
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Switzerland already has such a party, the SVP (UDC in French), and in fact they put forward the initiative. This was widely understood to be a vote on how well the SVP can appeal to the center. Turns out pretty well but it's not entirely surprising given their recent election results.
Yeah. So what will realistically happen, if we look at the trajectories of other countries, is that immigration will continue to rise, more people will be peaked by the discontent it can sow, and the popularity of this party will rise further.
>more people will be peaked by the discontent it can sow,
I think this is sort of begging the question a bit, in the sense of assuming a specific conclusion is true when asking the question of whether it's true.
In particular, I don't think it's demonstrably true that immigration sows discontent. I do think that it can be shown based on the US example that far-right parties looking to sow discontent often scapegoat immigration as the cause for societal problems that may have nothing to do with immigration (like the classic "your cost of living has gone up coincidentally at the same time that corporate profits are at an all-time high and regulatory capture is widespread; it must be immigrants to blame for things being expensive!")
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine taking away from the last century of world history the lesson that we should proactively give in to demagogues.
And it's criticisms like this that isolate people further from each other politically and emboldens support for the parties you dislike. There are valid and reasonable reasons to dislike large-scale immigration beyond supporting despots for the sake of doing so. The mainstream parties are not offering alternatives, can you blame those who are disaffected by this rapid societal change from reaching out to support the…
>The mainstream parties are not offering alternatives,
This part rings a little hollow when it's one of those mainstream parties that's doing the demagoguery.
>can you blame those who are disaffected by this rapid societal change from reaching out to support the first name that voices critique at policies they dislike?
Yes and no.
Can I blame people for recognizing that something in their life isn't working? No. Can I blame them for willfully accepting claims that offer no attempt at proving themselves with evidence, and that consist almost entirely of "people who look different than you are the only reason you have any problems"? Yes, because the average person shouldn't be so easily duped, and if they are, it's generally because they already wanted a reason to blame "those people" and anyone offering the faintest excuse ought not be "good enough".
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
And it's criticisms like this that isolate people further from each other politically and emboldens support for the parties you dislike. There are valid and reasonable reasons to dislike large-scale immigration beyond supporting despots for the sake of doing so. The mainstream parties are not offering alternatives, can you blame those who are disaffected by this rapid societal change from reaching out to support the…
Can you list some of these reasons?
Immigration has been directly responsible in the last decade for the huge run-up in housing prices in New Zealand.
It is not _the only reason_, but it is a big reason.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#16Without these kinds of policies you'll just see the rise of more "new-right" parties like One Nation in Australia and Reform in the United Kingdom (yes, I am aware both are not "new", but they are newly popular). It turns out there is a sufficient amount of immigration that is disliked by the populace that they will dump support for long-standing parties in favour of those who promise change.
Voters rejected a proposal, and your response is that the result will be more parties that support the type of thing that the majority of voters just rejected?
In a sense, you may be correct, but who cares? The majority of people voted against xenophobia, some people are still super xenophobic and will continue to try to implement xenophobic policies, and the majority of people will keep voting against them.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#17Three questions:
1. If i were to magically appear in Switzerland as say a middle easterner or random non european national how long can i stay? How would i be removed?
2. How long as a regular person without a job or special skills until i can be citizen?
3. How often do either of the two above happen?
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#18Without these kinds of policies you'll just see the rise of more "new-right" parties like One Nation in Australia and Reform in the United Kingdom (yes, I am aware both are not "new", but they are newly popular). It turns out there is a sufficient amount of immigration that is disliked by the populace that they will dump support for long-standing parties in favour of those who promise change.
Voters rejected a proposal, and your response is that the result will be more parties that support the type of thing that the majority of voters just rejected? In a sense, you may be correct, but who cares? The majority of people voted against xenophobia, some people are still super xenophobic and will continue to try to implement xenophobic policies, and the majority of people will keep voting against them.
Disliking mass immigration isn't xenophobia.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#19Without these kinds of policies you'll just see the rise of more "new-right" parties like One Nation in Australia and Reform in the United Kingdom (yes, I am aware both are not "new", but they are newly popular). It turns out there is a sufficient amount of immigration that is disliked by the populace that they will dump support for long-standing parties in favour of those who promise change.
The Swiss people voted in a folks referendum, not per parties’ delegate. Thus, it’s not politics as in other countries but the direct responses of the population. Switzerland is a direct democracy that doesn’t need alt right parties to “revenge” and support chance.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap Population at 10M
#20Without these kinds of policies you'll just see the rise of more "new-right" parties like One Nation in Australia and Reform in the United Kingdom (yes, I am aware both are not "new", but they are newly popular). It turns out there is a sufficient amount of immigration that is disliked by the populace that they will dump support for long-standing parties in favour of those who promise change.
The UK far right got what they wanted with Brexit, yet they are still complaining. There's no evidence indicating that capitulating to their extreme policies will somehow lead to them becoming friendlier to the political establishment.