[flagged]
considering how many foreigners in Switzerland work in tech, it somewhat is
Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
81–90 of 289 posts
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is that related to immigration? > Berlin can basically dictate EU immigration single handedly That's what I was responding to. Note the UK left the EU and accepted more immigrants than before. We didn't force them. Hungary and Poland never accepted Syrian immigrants either and they weren't forced to accept them iirc.
[flagged]
Varoufakis is Greek and so EU citizen. He literally cannot be banned from Schengen.
He is banned from public speaking in Germany and only Germany. Which the Germans can do to anyone on their own territory, including German citizens.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then do like UAE? No permanent residency or naturalization
When people have no hope of not making it as a permanent resident or citizen, their incentives to perform well are not as high. Also immigration is a global market, you compete with other countries that might offer better conditions so you lose on the best workforce.
I don't know the overall ratio, but my experience working with many immigrant workers is that they had no real intention of staying and instead are just arbitraging cost of living between [rich country] and [poor country] for their family back home. Emphasis on home.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen If the marketing were less xenophobic and the cap were derived from some scientific basis, I think I could be persuaded to vote for it. Particularly since it is not a vote for Chexit, but a democratic vote to confront the EU. (Britain triggered Article 50. Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that.)
> a democratic vote to confront the EU In what way? It is a vote to adopt a policy that is in breach of your international treaty obligations. Unilaterally breaching your obligations is not a grounds for discussion or compromise, it is simply an exit from them, benefits included. Suppose you're not getting on with your roommate. You could talk to them and try to resolve the problems, or you could default on your leas…
The party that proposed this vote has always opposed the treaties with the EU and yes this whole thing is just a thinly disguised way to repudiate the treaties as soon as practicable. They know what they are getting, it's not a cake-and-eat-it-too thing.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#85Recent, related New Yorker article that goes into the background leading up to the vote https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/06/15/could-switzerl... Despite the prosperity, many Swiss had mixed emotions about the guest workers, who came largely from Southern Europe. As the Swiss novelist Max Frisch observed, “We wanted workers, but we got people.”
Then do like UAE? No permanent residency or naturalization
Amnesty International report that things are fairly bad in the UAE for foreign workers.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-af...
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's a trend that is growing all over Europe The current system permitting freedom of movement across the continent while devolving immigration policy entirely to members creates a fundamental tension the EU needs to resolve. Because otherwise, Berlin can basically dictate EU immigration single handedly, which is bound to generate backlash even if they run a perfect programme.
To me it seems like EU countries are independently embarking on the Canada-policy of importing a whole bunch of South East Asians and Latin Americans. From Hungary to Ireland, you see the same trend. Part of it is by economic necessity. For example finding nursing staff is very challenging and you have to compete with the US and Australia and other rich countries. But part of it doesn't make much sense. We really don…
When a person relocates to a country where their labor is more productive, a large amount of new economic value is created. Much of that value is captured by the migrant through higher earnings, but a lot also accrues to the people in the community they join.
So an engineer joining a country that already has engineers still creates a ton of value in the destination country
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#87[dead]
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen If the marketing were less xenophobic and the cap were derived from some scientific basis, I think I could be persuaded to vote for it. Particularly since it is not a vote for Chexit, but a democratic vote to confront the EU. (Britain triggered Article 50. Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that.)
> Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that The initiative text literally directed the Bundesrat to withdraw from the bilaterals 2 years after exceeding 10m if they couldn't be renegotiated.
> withdraw from the bilaterals 2 years after exceeding 10m if they couldn't be renegotiated
Sure. This is two years down the road. And it is not Article 50. It would cause a shitshow. But that shitshow could be averted and is less comprehensive than directing an EU exit.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this Berlin that decides anything and rolls it out contintent-wide with us in the room right now?
I believe the point was more that Germany can accept lots of immigrants being a large country, and freedom of movement will allow them inside all countries, which can lead to backlash.
And that point is wrong. An immigrant with a legal residence in Germany but no permanent residence permit can't just pack up and go live elsewhere.
Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is a vote to adopt a policy that is in breach of your international treaty obligations It was a vote to renegotiate them under threat of disavowing them. That’s fine. > You could talk to them and try to resolve the problems, or you could default on your lease and receive an eviction notice from the landlord It’s totally fair, during those talks, to make clear that if you can’t reach an agreement on the roommate…
> That doesn’t commit you to moving out if they refuse to budge The vote did commit you to amending your federal constitution with a population cap, period. > If the 10-million threshold is exceeded, Switzerland would have to terminate these agreements, including the one with the EU on the free movement of persons after two years. This would also render the other agreements under Bilateral Agreements I null and void.…
> no room for negotiation in it. The government page itself spells out the hardline consequences
There is always room for negotiation. Bilaterals is a treaty, not a diktat. And again, 2 years provides time for another referendum.
> wonder how many Swiss were aware they were voting to end their own freedom of movement, that blocking EU immigration would mean they would no longer be able to move elsewhere in the EU themselves
Everyone did. The question was how the Guillotine clauses would be executed. Which, truly, nobody knows.