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FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

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Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#61

Post by Rochus »

adrian_b wrote: post #53
pjmlp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things, that are not only Pascal, but languages influenced by it during the 1970-1980's. The most obvious one is type declaration order. Strong typing, with more explicit casts, to what C devs used to call straightjacket programming on BBS and Usenet discussions. Striving to go back to toolchains with fast compilation times. Being able to use high level concepts, while at the same time having the primitves for l…

Standard Pascal had some very serious design mistakes, which are less obvious for those who have used only extended variants, like Turbo Pascal or Extended Pascal, where some of the mistakes had been corrected. Probably the greatest mistake was that arrays of different sizes were different types in Pascal. While C had extremely poor support for arrays in comparison with older languages like Fortran, PL/I or Algol 68,…

> in Standard Pascal it was pretty much impossible to write a library implementing linear algebra algorithms

You likely mean Wirth's original Pascal; "Standard Pascal" (i.e. ISO 7185) had support for actual array parameters with different bounds or lengths than the formal parameters ("conformant array parameters"), and there was also separate compilation in a later standard. And the original Modula-2 and Oberon versions supported both, open array parameters and separate compilation. I don't think that the original Wirth or Standard Pascal versions ever were popular. The language's massive popularity during the eigthies was driven by a few distinct, significantly extended dialects (UCSD, Lisa, Mac, VAX and Turbo Pascal, and later Delphi). Wirth himself didn't care about standardization nor industry demands.

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#62

Post by LeFantome »

jech wrote: post #43
eschaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you treat an image of the US House of Representatives the same way? The United States has caused an enormous amount of suffering in the world and has in the past had an explicit policy of genocide and oppression against a number of groups (including my wife’s ancestors), as well as a number of other horrific policies. If you would not treat an image of the US House of Representatives the same way as you treat a…

> Would you treat an image of the US House of Representatives the same way? No. The right analogy is an image of the Reichstag with Nazi banners.

If we asked people around the world which country should be most feared, I wonder what they would say?

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2026/06/07/study-world-usa-b...

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#63

Post by pkphilip »

For me the power of Object Pascal and Delphi was the ability to create reusable components that could be easily installed into the IDE. These components had powerful property sheets which could be used to set the values for their various properties etc.

Lazarus does fill that gap but somehow doesn't quite have the same feeling as the original Delphi.

The Free Oberon IDE looks like Turbo Pascal development enviroment from the late 80s and the early 90s. I wonder if it would have the concept of reusable components.

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#64

Post by thijsvandien »

pkphilip wrote: post #63

For me the power of Object Pascal and Delphi was the ability to create reusable components that could be easily installed into the IDE. These components had powerful property sheets which could be used to set the values for their various properties etc. Lazarus does fill that gap but somehow doesn't quite have the same feeling as the original Delphi. The Free Oberon IDE looks like Turbo Pascal development enviroment…

What's unfortunate about those components is that they are in fact part of the dev environment. I really wish they were fully contained in the project and then dynamically loaded along with it. GetIt ever so slightly improved the situation, but still. At this point basically nothing else could get me to ever upgrade anymore. Lazarus doesn't do any better, but there at least you could vendor the entire IDE.

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#65

Post by tgv »

eschaton wrote: post #24
tgv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given all we know about the USSR, I don't think anyone needs to explain why. This plus your other comment suggest you're replying in bad faith.

Nope. I just evidently know people with more varied opinions on the USSR than you do. (Including people who grew up there.)

Opinions... There are people with varied opinions on Nazi Germany. That doesn't mean squat.

The USSR eradicated everyone with a deviating opinion about the regime. They perished in the dungeons of the KGB and in the Gulags. What remained were opportunists and followers. Opinions!

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#66

Post by monkeywork »

shakna wrote: post #13
monkeywork wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More info please? I have severe doubts that GOG actually had that intent.

This one [0]. Which German QA picked up and said 'no way', and so German customers didn't get the newsletter. But everyone else still did. [0] https://www.pcgamer.com/games/gog-apologizes-for-emailing-na...

And that was a dog whistle to you ? you realize in order for it to be a dog whistle it would have had to been intentional with malice right?

Honestly your attitude towards this is why the internet is so bloody toxic all the time now and simply not fun.

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#67

Post by jibal »

eschaton wrote: post #38
jibal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, that accusation of bad faith is such blatant projection ... essentially "It's bad faith to disagree with me, and there's no need for me to justify my claims." This whole diversion is off topic and can be seen as a form of bad faith.

I’m not even disagreeing, I’m saying that there are different (and somewhat opposed) ways in which someone could find an image offensive, so it’s worthwhile to provide further context.

Yes, I know you aren't, but they are taking it that way.

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#68

Post by fuzztester »

pjmlp wrote: post #49
fuzztester wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what ways have they gone back to Pascal style?

Some things, that are not only Pascal, but languages influenced by it during the 1970-1980's. The most obvious one is type declaration order. Strong typing, with more explicit casts, to what C devs used to call straightjacket programming on BBS and Usenet discussions. Striving to go back to toolchains with fast compilation times. Being able to use high level concepts, while at the same time having the primitves for l…

thanks

Re: FreeOberon – Open-Source, Cross-Platform, Free Pascal/Turbo Pascal-Like Language

#69

Post by shakna »

monkeywork wrote: post #66
shakna wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one [0]. Which German QA picked up and said 'no way', and so German customers didn't get the newsletter. But everyone else still did. [0] https://www.pcgamer.com/games/gog-apologizes-for-emailing-na...

And that was a dog whistle to you ? you realize in order for it to be a dog whistle it would have had to been intentional with malice right? Honestly your attitude towards this is why the internet is so bloody toxic all the time now and simply not fun.

I provided no judgement. But, to actually provide it, I would call it a spectacular failure of cross-team communication. German QA flagged it as a problem.

I haven't given attitude beyond providing a link to a story, when someone else said they hadn't heard anything.

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