Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

dailymail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 132 posts

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#31

Post by jdw64 »

coryrc wrote: post #24
jdw64 wrote: post #14

Why do problems caused by anti scientific behavior occur in a country like the United States, which has so many outstanding scientists? From a third party perspective, I wonder if it's because, as stratification has progressed in the US, distrust of the social class that scientists belong to has led people to deny even their achievements. Why does distrust arise toward the institutions and hierarchies that speak for…

> But when you think about it, governments, state agencies, and even universities themselves are not actively trying to improve this They are, all the time, doing outreach. It's just as Isaac Asimov said: Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' The o…

I disagree with Isaac Asimov on that point. The reason is that professors and universities have failed to communicate that knowledge persuasively to the public. In other words, it's establishment science. They ignore opinions that oppose corporations, and they give grants to research that suits corporate tastes. This pattern keeps appearing in the United States. So it seems that public experience and word of mouth have created opposition to scientists. I know a few examples of this. The 'lead' crisis is one such case.

In fact, some academic societies are deeply tied to corporations and operate in alignment with their direct interests. I think the accumulation of such cases has led to public distrust. I don't think it's any single party's fault. Both sides are just doing what feels right within their own identities. Scientists resist corporations to fulfill their own self actualization and curiosity, and the public simply hates those corrupt corporations. I'm not saying that all scientists are on the side of corporations. It's just that when the achievements of certain scientists are publicized, the ones with the megaphone are the corporate scientists. It's a complicated issue

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#32

Post by scwoodal »

jdw64 wrote: post #14

Why do problems caused by anti scientific behavior occur in a country like the United States, which has so many outstanding scientists? From a third party perspective, I wonder if it's because, as stratification has progressed in the US, distrust of the social class that scientists belong to has led people to deny even their achievements. Why does distrust arise toward the institutions and hierarchies that speak for…

My parents have been religiously listening to the likes of Rush Limbaugh since the early 90's on a daily basis. I recall listening to it on our drive into work together.

30+ years of hearing whatever the tv/radio host du jour says, without critical thinking, taking it at face value, 8+ hours every day. In the car to work, radio on while working, drive home, and then turn the TV on till bed time.

Then take a drive through rural America and see that education isn't an important pillar.

I went to college (neither of my parents did) and made it out with a different perspective, but my brother did not. He peddles in conspiracy theories and doesn't believe humans landed on the moon. My father regrets sending me to college.

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#34

Post by techjamie »

flawn wrote: post #15
chasil wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It erases immune memory, taking away antibodies to recently exposed diseases. It's best not to get it.

What is the evolutionary advantage of this? I mean, if the host dies subsequently that's pretty bad for both parties, or?

Evolution is just a race to "good enough to consistently reproduce" and everything after the sufficient reproduction is irrelevant. Like the goats whose horns have to be cut or they'll eventually pierce their own brain.

Generally it's more advantageous for your own anatomy not to kill you without intervention, but they reproduce and that checks off the "good enough" box.

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#35

Post by 9eLeven »

SoftTalker wrote: post #29
mistersquid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The World Cup already started. But there are no games played in Utah For now, Utahns can travel freely to US states where World Cup games are played.

Relatively nobody in the US cares about soccer, much less travels for it.

Did people from outside the US travel here to see the world cup?

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#37

Post by gigatexal »

While both sides of the political spectrum have crazies in them that are skeptical of vaccines let it be known that this latest insanity is being promulgated by red states and red politicians who are showing themselves to be just the biggest science denying idiots the world has ever seen

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#38

Post by Lonestar1440 »

jdw64 wrote: post #14

Why do problems caused by anti scientific behavior occur in a country like the United States, which has so many outstanding scientists? From a third party perspective, I wonder if it's because, as stratification has progressed in the US, distrust of the social class that scientists belong to has led people to deny even their achievements. Why does distrust arise toward the institutions and hierarchies that speak for…

You need a certain baseline of power and influence in order to inspire a backlash like what we're seeing in the US.

It happens because so many Scientists are influential, and in particular because of the way that influence was used during COVID.

(I enthusiastically take my vaccines)

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#39

Post by colechristensen »

flawn wrote: post #15
chasil wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It erases immune memory, taking away antibodies to recently exposed diseases. It's best not to get it.

What is the evolutionary advantage of this? I mean, if the host dies subsequently that's pretty bad for both parties, or?

The virus "cares" if it reproduces. There is often tension between the various levels of spreading mechanisms: for example airbourne spread diseases making you cough vs. the cough making the host feel poorly and not interacting with people or the cough killing the host really preventing further spread. There are plenty of optimum points between fast intense disease and asymptomatic disease.

Short term intense disease courses tend to only work for a short period of evolution for new infection mechanisms, the intensity makes them sensitive to any increased immunity which ends up halting the spread for more mild versions. Infectious diseases tend to lower in intensity over the long term.

Re: Measles surge in Utah sparks fears US could undo decades of progress

#40

Post by fhdkweig »

mistersquid wrote: post #8
soneca wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The World Cup already started. But there are no games played in Utah

> The World Cup already started. But there are no games played in Utah For now, Utahns can travel freely to US states where World Cup games are played.

The Olympics happen every two years and aren't the cause of such issues. I doubt the World Cup will be any different.
Post reply on HN