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Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

canada.com

91–100 of 111 posts

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#91
A bit late, but a few comments on how this thing actually works:

In their model brain, they build functionality for 10 different tasks. These tasks were chosen to model those tasks used in psych evaluations, cognitive experiments, etc, so that the model can be compared to experiments with real humans. Good scientific choice there.

The user must design the function that she wants. The program then finds a particular network that can implement the function. This is like when you need to pay 55 cents, and you have a bunch of change, you can pretty much find multiple ways to make 55 cents (2 quarters + 5 pennies, 9 nickels + 1 dime, etc).

So for each task, they find a minimal mathematical description of the task in terms of eye movements, visual stimuli. Then, they fit a neural network to that description. This part is interesting neither scientifically nor mathematically, as we have known for 20 years that neural networks are universal function approximators. Look it up on google scholar, this is textbook stuff.

What IS interesting is what happens when they try to build up a brain, putting all these tasks into the same large network. This part is novel: they find that as they implement more and more tasks, it becomes easier to do so because they can adapt already existing components (like Daniel Dennett's exaptation) for use in the new task. This is vindication of evolutionary theory but in the context of cognitive neuroscience. Pas mal, as they say.

But these kinds of details aren't obvious unless you have domain knowledge and you've seen Chris Eliasmith speak a few times, and you've thought, mmm hold on a sec, show me them equations. (which he doesn't usually do).

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#92
I wonder how this compares to Numenta's Grok and their Cortical Learning Algorithm or other efforts in this space? I can see this type of software really helping in everyday tasks (like helping to tailor my twitter stream or news feeds and curate them down based on my own taste, etc)... reference: Numenta Grok: https://www.numenta.com/grok_info.html

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#95
...which could learn a scene segmentation using environmental cues by mere repeated observations of different scenes, as a child does?)) Come on..

It is not theoretical limitations why we cannot build anything like brain, it is complexity and amount of details. There are very good theoretical foundation by Marvin Minsky, so, we could model how, but unable to implement anything but most primitive tasks, like hand-writing digit recognition, or how to balance a body using sensors and motors.

In general, it is possible to solve simple tasks, which are successive approximations, but as long as we come to creation, instead of recognition, we are helpless.

The key notion here is that a brain is, presumably, analogous, not digital machine, and what it does isn't a computation, it a training, the same way a child trains itself how to hold her head, then sit, then stand.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#96
post #52

I think this type of progress is actually extraordinarily bad for humans 1.0. A brain in hardware can grow so much faster and outpace wetware by orders of magnitude. Think of forking subminds to think on decisions research possibilities, and report back. Should brains like this have any desires that conflict with our needs, we will be in an extraordinary amount of trouble. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_max…

We're DECADES away from this being relevant. As a PhD student in neuroscience, there is no one in our field who understands even basic neuroanatomy enough to be able to setup a model that implements cognition or awareness, or even knows what those concepts mean in any sort of operational way. We can do some cool machine learning, but don't worry about the robopacalypse anytime soon.

Decades from relevance is still terrifying. I will be alive for decades. My kids will be alive for at least any value not better measured in centuries.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#97
post #52

I think this type of progress is actually extraordinarily bad for humans 1.0. A brain in hardware can grow so much faster and outpace wetware by orders of magnitude. Think of forking subminds to think on decisions research possibilities, and report back. Should brains like this have any desires that conflict with our needs, we will be in an extraordinary amount of trouble. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_max…

We're DECADES away from this being relevant. As a PhD student in neuroscience, there is no one in our field who understands even basic neuroanatomy enough to be able to setup a model that implements cognition or awareness, or even knows what those concepts mean in any sort of operational way. We can do some cool machine learning, but don't worry about the robopacalypse anytime soon.

[deleted]

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#98
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> , but that's not simulating emotion, it's simulating the appearance of emotion. Big difference! Is there, really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

Well, yes. The Chinese Room claims that there is a gulf between being able to pass a Chinese Turing test versus being able to actually understand Chinese and have intentionality. Unlike intentionality, however, emotions aren't just for show: I act differently, depending on my emotions. For example, when I'm angry, I sometimes act irrationally. My actions, therefore, depend on my emotions. To program emotions (anger),…

I don't find the Chinese room argument convincing in the least. After all, it's the software that does the understanding, not the hardware. Otherwise, it would be like asking my fingers to understand this comment, or even asking my brain, when it's really my mind that's understanding.

Speaking of rationality, it's probably safe to say that you will end with a sometimes irrational program no matter what you do. Neural networks have glitches, configuration spaces have local minimae, software has bugs. It's as if you saw AI as being "programmed" via a series of rules, when it's more a grow process, arising from probabilistic dumb agents. Even if these agents were to be rational, the system could become irrational: I refer to the current economic crisis.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#99
post #52

I think this type of progress is actually extraordinarily bad for humans 1.0. A brain in hardware can grow so much faster and outpace wetware by orders of magnitude. Think of forking subminds to think on decisions research possibilities, and report back. Should brains like this have any desires that conflict with our needs, we will be in an extraordinary amount of trouble. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_max…

We're DECADES away from this being relevant. As a PhD student in neuroscience, there is no one in our field who understands even basic neuroanatomy enough to be able to setup a model that implements cognition or awareness, or even knows what those concepts mean in any sort of operational way. We can do some cool machine learning, but don't worry about the robopacalypse anytime soon.

I don't disagree with your point about neuroanatomy. But it may well be that true AI is possible via some avenue other than emulation of existing biological intelligence.

As for "DECADES" -- that is a pretty short time, when you have a very large and important research programme ("Friendly AI", some call it) to carry out. If we postpone this research some decades, and then someone makes a breakthrough in AI without ensuring Friendliness, it could be bad news.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#100
post #71
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain itself is equipment enough: http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/aibox

The test was run twice and the AI was released both times but the logs of the conversations weren't made public. Also all of the extra protocols weren't in place for either test meaning he could have bought the AI's release. It's an interesting thought experiment but it's a bit ridiculous that the "tests" are mentioned on the page when they don't have any relevance to the rest of the idea.

And why couldn't he AI buy it's own release? "Hey! I can predict the stock market for you."
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