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Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

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Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#111

Post by inigyou »

mcapodici wrote: post #26
deepserket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a system that saves in some way the hash in a Blockchain, and if you, eg, XOR the hash of the video with the hash of the previous block you will "certainly" know that the video was created between the previous block and the block where the hash is saved in. That's a starting point.

This sort of chain doesn't need PoW I take it, just a very secure police server to sign blocks.

And it couldn't be run by the police or any of their friends, since they're the adversary.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#112

Post by daveshistory »

Chinjut wrote: post #83
constableclaude wrote: post #76

The headline evokes ideas of creating a video of a suspect perpetrating the crime but what I think is much more likely is the police officer used AI to enhance an image in a way that they considered innocuous, e.g: a photo was blurry so they “enhanced” it. Since “enhancing” is letting AI fill in the gaps it would be using AI to “create evidence”. Regardless of what they did, tampering with evidence is completely unac…

Yes, let's please give police officers the copious (cop-ious?) benefit of the doubt they have earnt.

Honestly, I didn't tell it to add that gun to the picture, it did that on its own!

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#113

Post by assimpleaspossi »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #80
pjc50 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big gap between "theoretically unreliable" and courts actually recognizing that, unfortunately. Lots of forensics is much more dubious than CSI would have you believe.

My girlfriends been having me watch law and order svu with her and to be honest it doesn't really even seem trustworthy with how they want to present it. The psychologist guy especially will come up with some wildly detailed assertions about who the criminal is based on nothing

Are we really going to go to a fictional TV show now?

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#114

Post by assimpleaspossi »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #59
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large double-digit percentage This is a very very intense claim, and if true, would represent a monumental institutional failure across hundreds or even thousands of disparate organizations. Do you have any data to support your hunch? Strong claims require strong evidence.

A few years ago, one of my coworkers was arrested for a domestic violence complaint. Looking into his case, I found an extremely specific lurid description of the allegations -- and then I found the same lurid description copy/pasted to every other person recently arrested for the same crime. I'm probably getting the specific terms wrong, but I did click through to see it on a government website, because my first sus…

The complaint would be by the courts, not the police.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#116

Post by mukbangpervert »

asdff wrote: post #56
mukbangpervert wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gone from highly skilled people being able to forge some specific photos and documents using substantial time/energy/resources, to any asshole being able to generate realistic full-motion video in minutes. I get that there is a certain type of moron who thinks that the collapse in cost of misinformation has no harm... but all you've done is announce to the world that you are a moron.

It is really not any different. People would throw a hubcap in the air and pitch it as a UFO photo and idiots would latch on to that. You could take a photo of the empire state building and use a double exposure to make it look like you were king kong. Kids were doing this sort of stuff. Stop motion home movies where you'd look like you were levitating or your head got cut off. It always comes down to provenance.

People are just lining up to announce that they're fucking idiots.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#117

Post by justin66 »

tsss wrote: post #104
constableclaude wrote: post #76

The headline evokes ideas of creating a video of a suspect perpetrating the crime but what I think is much more likely is the police officer used AI to enhance an image in a way that they considered innocuous, e.g: a photo was blurry so they “enhanced” it. Since “enhancing” is letting AI fill in the gaps it would be using AI to “create evidence”. Regardless of what they did, tampering with evidence is completely unac…

If you think the police don't fabricate evidence on the regular, simply because their hunch doesn't match the fact or because they don't like the suspect, then you are way too gullible. Back in the day they just planted a baggie of drugs on you.

> Back in the day they just planted a baggie of drugs on you.

Thank god that never happens anymore. I'm sure the bodycam era has ended all of that misbehavior and one could not possibly go to YouTube and find videos of cops in possession of that unique blend of corruption and stupidity that would lead them to plant drugs while being recorded. Ahem.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#118

Post by bigiain »

gcr wrote: post #19
aorloff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine in this age of blockchains you could embed into a media file a signature that proved it was no older than the timestamp of when it occurred, the digital equivalent of a hostage-proof-of-life photo with a recent newspaper But I don't know of a cryptographic mechanism to ensure that a digital image is not more recent than a particular time

Publish hash(image) on the blockchain at a verifiable time, then publish the image itself. The image contains the previous block’s hash. Wouldn’t this establish both a lower bound and an upper bound on the time the image could have been produced?

You don't need a blockchain for that. You just need some reliable-enough way to publish hash(image) with a timestamp - some way that it's infeasible enough as to be considered impossible for thepublisher to change the hash or the date.

Back when I was on Twitter and following a lot of infosec accounts, it was quite common to see tweets that were just a hash. Sometimes they'd have an explanation "Zero click RCE in Android 10 - {hash}"

In the past I've used gmail for this internally - email a hash of something critical (logs, configurations, decision docs, etc) to a dedicated gmail account - relying on the in feasibility of "faking" the date/time once it's onb Google's servers.

The important thing here would be to make sure those hashes are published somewhere where its technically infeasible for the police to change it after the fact, so not on a platform the police run or p-aid for (or that is run or paid for by an organization that the police can request or coerce the operators to make changes).

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#119

Post by girvo »

Terr_ wrote: post #33
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might have a point. This was before blockchain. I suspect that the cops wouldn’t like the chain public, though.

Like when people discuss voting, I believe a blockchain [0] is a terrible pitfall compared to a classic distributed database system of predefined nodes run by different organizations. For example, imagine a couple hundred predefined nodes run by different states, federal agencies, etc. An attacker altering the ledger would still require compromising an unreasonably large number of independent groups at once, and even…

You just described IBM's whole Hyperledger Fabric thingy. I worked with it once upon a time, with the biggest insurance companies in my country where they plus a regulator all ran nodes.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#120

Post by Jensson »

moonu wrote: post #101
Jensson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhones, no, there's no AI replacement or synthesis of objects from the camera This is AI. Its not generative AI if that is what you mean, but it is AI altering the image and adding things that wasn't there, usually its fine sometimes it fails horribly and make the picture totally different. https://x.com/mitchcohen/status/1476351601862483968

https://x.com/mitchcohen/status/1476951534160257026?s=20 The replies explain that it was a leaf obscuring the face

But it used AI to stitch that onto the body, a raw camera shot wouldn't look like that.
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