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Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

theguardian.com

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#61

Post by jcranmer »

Lerc wrote: post #8

> In appealing against the conviction, Bankman-Fried’s defense lawyers argued that US district judge Lewis Kaplan, who oversaw the trial, improperly prevented Bankman-Fried from introducing evidence to back up his belief that FTX had enough funds to cover customer withdrawals. So it's been a few years now. Did people get their money in the end? That would presumably answer the question of whether they were stolen fro…

Would you consider it theft if you asked someone to watch over your house, and when you came back, they told you they sold your house but give them a few months and they should be able to buy it back? That's basically what SBF did here--he sold the customer assets that were not his to sell, and his defense is trying to obscure the basic fact.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#62

Post by philipov »

SoftTalker wrote: post #52
kelnos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how that's relevant. Trump does whatever Trump thinks is good for Trump. I'm sure his support of Clinton back then made sense to him, as did shifting far right several years later. If he thinks accepting money from SBF will be good for him, he'll do it. If not, he won't. I suspect SBF is going to be left out in the cold, though, so Trump can say he's tough on white-collar crime, while pardoning the Binance g…

I was responding to the implication that SBF's association with the Clintons was a reason he would not get any favors from Trump. Trump has had a lot of associates on the D side of the ballot over the years, pretty much unavoidable if you're a wheeler-dealer in New York.

Why would Trump's previous associations with the Democratic party prevent him from spiting someone else's associations with the Democratic party? That would require he not be a complete hypocrite. On the other hand, associating SBF with the Democrats makes them look bad. Why pardon an albatross around the neck of your enemies?

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#63

Post by momoschili »

ben4next wrote: post #48
momoschili wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he ain't a left winger. right winger cosplaying

"Sam Bankman-Fried was one of the largest financial supporters of the Democratic Party and left-wing campaigns. He publicly cultivated a center-left persona and aligned his philanthropic efforts with progressive ideologies." Src: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/geor...

I think it would be prudent to disengage democrats from being 'left wing'. There is certainly a progressive wing of the democratic party, but none of those are the people he donated to. After all, this is the Democratic Party that a couple years ago during election season were trying to get George Bush and Dick Cheney to come to Kamala's rally.

He also secretly donated significant amounts of money to republicans (self-admitted), so all-in-all his contributions definitely skew center-right.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#64

Post by ryanschaefer »

jcranmer wrote: post #61
Lerc wrote: post #8

> In appealing against the conviction, Bankman-Fried’s defense lawyers argued that US district judge Lewis Kaplan, who oversaw the trial, improperly prevented Bankman-Fried from introducing evidence to back up his belief that FTX had enough funds to cover customer withdrawals. So it's been a few years now. Did people get their money in the end? That would presumably answer the question of whether they were stolen fro…

Would you consider it theft if you asked someone to watch over your house, and when you came back, they told you they sold your house but give them a few months and they should be able to buy it back? That's basically what SBF did here--he sold the customer assets that were not his to sell , and his defense is trying to obscure the basic fact.

If Michael Lewis is to be believed making Gemini whole was his largest mistake.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#65

Post by JumpCrisscross »

randycupertino wrote: post #59
ben4next wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sam Bankman-Fried was one of the largest financial supporters of the Democratic Party and left-wing campaigns. He publicly cultivated a center-left persona and aligned his philanthropic efforts with progressive ideologies." Src: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/geor...

He did that for PR. He stated he also secretly donated to the right. > SBF claims he gave tens of millions in untraceable donations to Republicans > Although federal election receipts show that Bankman-Fried donated almost exclusively to Democrats, he claimed on a November phone call with YouTuber Tiffany Fong that he donated an equal amount to Republicans and Democrats. > “All my Republican donations were dark,” he…

> He stated he also secretly donated to the right

Convenient!

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#66

Post by JumpCrisscross »

GolfPopper wrote: post #36
3stacks wrote: post #6

Scam Bankman-Fraud is just one of the few highly publicised cases they will use to pretend they are actually serious about tackling these issues. Wake me when someone gets prosecuted for front-running Axios' "Iran deal is imminent" articles in the oil market.

He committed the one crime you can't buy your way out of: scamming the ruling finance class.

> scamming the ruling finance class

Loads of fraudsters get off on technicalities or are being pardoned by this President. What started as a joke on Reddit appears to be taken seriously by way too many people.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#67

Post by JumpCrisscross »

SoftTalker wrote: post #47
Lerc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a SBF defender, and at no point am I suggesting that a crime was not committed. I am saying that the crime is different to theft. Would you say that a misuse of funds with zero chance of the rightful owner losing their money is a less serious crime than a misuse of funds with a 50% or 100% chance of losing their money. I think it is, and penalties should be proportionate. That is a principle that I hold independe…

Paying back a victim, or "making them whole" is part of required restitution, but it's not adequate as a deterrence. If all I have to do is pay back my victims, there's very little disincentive to keep trying my schemes until I "win." Loss of freedom is ultimately what will reform a criminal, if reform is possible.

> Loss of freedom is ultimately what will reform a criminal, if reform is possible

The goals of penal sanctions are “retribution, deterrence, incapacitation, and rehabilitation” [1].

Bankman-Fried is a sociopath. He isn’t going to be rehabilitated, his continuing pursuit of a pardon proves that. The benefits in jailing him are mainly in the first three: retribution, deterrence and incapacitation.

[1] https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/HTML/LSB1...

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#68

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Lerc wrote: post #56
SoftTalker wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying back a victim, or "making them whole" is part of required restitution, but it's not adequate as a deterrence. If all I have to do is pay back my victims, there's very little disincentive to keep trying my schemes until I "win." Loss of freedom is ultimately what will reform a criminal, if reform is possible.

>Loss of freedom is ultimately what will reform a criminal, if reform is possible. I don't believe that is correct. In fact there's pretty good research to suggest that custodial sentences inrcease recidivism. This does not really apply to the SBF case, but I shall elaborate for the general case. There are far more burglars in their 20's than in their 50's. The predominant characteristic amongst people over the age o…

> the single most reliable way to reform a criminal is to let them get older without going to jail

I think it’s just getting older. If they’re a recivifism risk, locking them up until they’re older can be argued to serve the public good. If they’re not, you’re right, don’t jail them. The argument is essentially against short prison sentences; either find another way to punish or commit to locking them up until they’re 60.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#69

Post by randycupertino »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #65
randycupertino wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did that for PR. He stated he also secretly donated to the right. > SBF claims he gave tens of millions in untraceable donations to Republicans > Although federal election receipts show that Bankman-Fried donated almost exclusively to Democrats, he claimed on a November phone call with YouTuber Tiffany Fong that he donated an equal amount to Republicans and Democrats. > “All my Republican donations were dark,” he…

> He stated he also secretly donated to the right Convenient!

I mean, he gave his rationale why it wasn't public. He was a calculating, manipulative dude who was super PR-savvy and knew how to cultivate press and hype. His entire unruly hair, driving a 2010 Corolla and gaming-while-pitching-VCs thing were all components of the neurodivergent genius savant branding.

Look at some of own statements:

> Kelsey Piper: so the ethics stuff - mostly a front? people will like you if you win and hate you if you lose and that's how it all really works?

> Sam Bankman-Fried: yeah

> SBF: I mean that's not all of it

> SBF: but it's a lot

> KP: you were really good at talking about ethics, for someone who kind of saw it all as a game with winners and losers

> SBF: ya

> SBF: hehe

> SBF: I had to be

> SBF: it's what reputations are made of, to some extent

> SBF: I feel bad for those who get f*** by it

> SBF: by this dumb game we woke westerners play where we say all the right shiboleths [sic] and so everyone likes us

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried loses bid to appeal against fraud conviction in FTX case

#70

Post by bmitc »

voganmother42 wrote: post #12
throw563 wrote: post #10

Small criminals rot in jails but big ones like founder of silk road get out paying the government. This is shows how rotten american government is

I think the tiered justice system sucks, but this is no small criminal

His crime wasn't small, but he is because he wasn't already wealthy before committing his crimes.
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