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Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

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Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#221

Post by themafia »

asolove wrote: post #13

The replies here arguing we should publish it all are wild in the worst kind of first-order thinking way. It’s a census: it just asks questions. If you start publishing and weaponizing the data against people with various attributes, they’ll just lie or not answer. And then you are left with worse than nothing: bad data people try to act on.

It's a census: it's only function is to determine the number of representatives your state should have.

Please don't ask about my toilets, my demographics, or my religion.

Thanks.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#222

Post by vharuck »

Pragmata wrote: post #3

Frankly i see no reason to keep this data private. They should simply publish a full dataset of the census, with no such data coarsening/differential privacy/ etc... Fundamentally this is public data. If it's to dangerous to make public, it's too dangerous to collect, and people should be aware of exactly what it is. There are very few things that the state has data on that should not be made public. Census data is s…

>If it's to dangerous to make public, it's too dangerous to collect, and people should be aware of exactly what it is.

While this may be a reasonable stance in theory, there are many examples in reality where the danger has not materialized for decades. Personally, I have access to health records, birth certificates, and death certificates collected by a state. They contain very personal information. As far as I know, they have not been leaked to the general public.

This is one of those situations where everything you hear tells you the system is failing, but that's because nobody talks about the systems which haven't failed.

Besides, this possible failing of the Census' privacy promises shouldn't convince us that "If only we hadn't given info to the despotic and cruel government using it to target people, then we'd only have a despotic and cruel government hurting people randomly." The solution to this problem isn't to withhold info, it's to get rid of the despots.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#223

Post by brainwad »

simonw wrote: post #55
jonhohle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems’s like an issue created by congress. the constitution only requires a headcount by state. Maybe they should use another mechanism to collect demographic data. Since the concern is not about representation, but allocation, tax returns seem like an obvious alternative and they are already private and collected at a much more granular level.

I don't think the question "Has this person given birth to any children in the past 12 months?" would look good on a tax return.

My home country pays a baby bonus to people and it's administered via the tax system, so I think we ask something very similar actually.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#224

Post by dmboyd »

whattheheckheck wrote: post #70
conception wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember “leftist “ and transgender activists are terrorists now. First they came for…

What's the actual antidote to this? 5calls.org?

The actual effective strategy is “tit for tat”

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#225

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

somenameforme wrote: post #161
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are saying the candidates are forced on us by someone else. But that's just wrong, we choose the candidates. Anybody can run, there is no secret cabal that decides who can run and who can't.

You do know the former head of the DNC was forced to retire after the leaked emails outed her, and basically all of the top of the DNC, extensively conspiring against Sanders in favor of Clinton? [1] You're right the cabal isn't secret - it's literally the DNC, and who they want to win is who will win, one way or the other. Just reading over that source - it's insane how blatant these people can be: "In May 2016, MSN…

A primary role of political parties has traditionally been to filter candidates. It's literally their raison d'etre

Sanders wasn't even a Democrat. He switched solely to run in the primary. It's neither scandalous nor surprising that the DNC would try to put up barriers between him and the nomination.

If the RNC had done it's job, Trump would never have been allowed into the primary in the first place.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#226

Post by shiandow »

sherburt3 wrote: post #172

So "differential privacy" pretty much sounds like someone gets to modify the results of a census and how it gets modified is entirely up to their discretion. Seems like something that could be abused to achieve political objectives.

Not really, it has to be random in a predetermined fashion to be considered differential privacy. It is reversible in the way that someone shouting over an aicraft producing white noise is intelligible.

I guess someone could fiddle with the noise, but then why not nudge the originals? Or more insidiously, control what is published?

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#227

Post by DrewADesign »

dualvariable wrote: post #168
deaux wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turnout in the past few elections was already extraordinarily high. In a sense, this in itself is the issue. It's long-term _worse_ to vote for the "lesser of two serious evils". This extreme "long-term pain for short-term gain" attitude is what's gotten the US to where it is. If in 2016 of 2024 even 20% of the dems would've stayed home or voted third party, the DNC's continuous forcing of awful corpocrats with zer…

> The whole idea of "third-party voting is a complete waste in the US" is incredibly dumb because a vote for someone who loses isn't a wasted vote. It shows the others that there's a voter there who can be convinced if catered to, if they select a better candidate. Tried that in 2000, voting for Nader as a protest vote against Clinton/Gore third way neoliberalism. I did that in a state where the electoral votes for D…

The legislative seats are barely more malleable than the executive ones, and they’re a lot cheaper to buy off. Even with grassroots efforts to elect local candidates and move them up, it takes a perfect storm to actually get someone that’s even modestly different than the empty suits that largely fill those seats already.

I have zero faith in this system to execute anything other than purchased policy agendas, or empower any more than a tiny symbolic collection of people who oppose them… just enough to give the illusion of agency and stop any real organizing. I have no idea what could possibly break this pattern.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#228

Post by pseudalopex »

gs17 wrote: post #164
deaux wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turnout in the past few elections was already extraordinarily high. In a sense, this in itself is the issue. It's long-term _worse_ to vote for the "lesser of two serious evils". This extreme "long-term pain for short-term gain" attitude is what's gotten the US to where it is. If in 2016 of 2024 even 20% of the dems would've stayed home or voted third party, the DNC's continuous forcing of awful corpocrats with zer…

> The whole idea of "third-party voting is a complete waste in the US" is incredibly dumb because a vote for someone who loses isn't a wasted vote. Yes, but with a caveat, if you had a strong preference between the top two actually-likely-to-win candidates (assuming the third party wasn't competitive), it's at least not voting the most in your interests for the outcome. Which is why we really need approval voting, so…

> Which is why we really need approval voting, so we can actually vote for the candidates we like, rather than needing to "strategically" hold our noses.

Approval voting would not end strategic voting.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting#Strategic_voti...

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#229

Post by stackskipton »

esseph wrote: post #182
kajman wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't work in this industry so I don't know their secret sauce, but I would be surprised if census data is not used as a baseline for what they're selling. It doesn't make sense to not want to use it if your next best sources are relying on everyone in the household having an app that sells their location to your network constantly. I see outdated data about me on the public versions of these sites all the time, so…

It is probably not a baseline for what they're selling. https://www.census.gov/about/history/bureau-history/agency-h... > Title 13 provides the following protections to individuals and businesses: > Private information is never published. It is against the law to disclose or publish any private information that identifies an individual or business such, including names, addresses (including GPS coordinates), Social S…

I worked for Data company for a year. We absolutely used Census and ACS as baselines and checks. In fact, there was some talk about getting rid of ACS in Congress and we got emails about "EMAIL YOUR CONGRESSIONAL PERSON, DEMAND ACS STAY. Here are talking points."

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#230

Post by throwawa1 »

airstrike wrote: post #83
throwawa1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How do you get the idea that migration is "planned"? You've lost the plot entirely

One example is HIAS who runs a fully staffed Darién Gap facility. As soon as there is a friendly administration to mass migration - they just flip a switch and we will have 10 millions of migrants. I don't want to come across as MAGA, because I am a non voter - the Republicans fuel the fire with forever wars. Its really two sides of the same coin. Companies benefit, because when there is no social cohesion workers are less likely to Unionize.
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