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Orthodox C++ (2016)

bkaradzic.github.io

11–20 of 238 posts

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#11

Submitted a fair few times previously. HN's search turned up these submissions with some additional discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40445536 (2 years ago, 63 points, 66 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25554018 (5 years ago, 70 points, 102 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13751244 (9 years ago, 29 points, 14 comments) Looks like the page was moved from a GitHub gist to a g…

Yep, the article is a old one and not particularly well written. As somebody who has been using C++ from the early 90s and not particularly a fan of (all of) "Modern C++", there is not much information here.

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#12
post #7

I've developed a style that I legitimately call Heterodox C++ (mainly due to the popularity of Orthodox C++), it is effectively a purely functional & metaprogramming heavy style of C++. Quite the opposite of this, not everyones cup of tea, and it won't fit into every codebase but it is incredibly powerful. The template metaprogramming C++ offers is the most powerful of any imperative language, and (subjective opinion…

C++ template metaprogramming is in some ways more powerful than Common Lisp macros, because it works at the type level: you can generate new types and dispatch into separate implementations by type. In contrast, Common Lisp type declarations are not available at macro expansion time unless you implement a full source-to-source translator in macros.

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#13
If you're in a market that requires using C++, many of these decisions are made for you by the platform above you, and you're screwed. Turn on RTTI, build a fort to deflect the random exceptions they'll throw at you, and may the gods allow you to recoup your R&D before some well-intentioned yokel in some media or game vertical changes everything and requires you to change everything.

On the other hand, if you control your own destiny and care about velocity and code quality, many of these choices eventually become self-evident.

If you are messing around with the latest and greatest esoteric C++ stuff in 2026, bless you, you beautiful nerd. But it may be time to start evaluating where you are in life, and how you got here. (And if you're on a C++ committee, I revoke those blessings.)

For those who remain: if you have a C++ code base yet somehow have enough time and energy to write opinionated blog posts, it's really hard to imagine why you think you'd have a better take on this than Google.

https://google.github.io/styleguide/cppguide.html

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#14
post #7

I've developed a style that I legitimately call Heterodox C++ (mainly due to the popularity of Orthodox C++), it is effectively a purely functional & metaprogramming heavy style of C++. Quite the opposite of this, not everyones cup of tea, and it won't fit into every codebase but it is incredibly powerful. The template metaprogramming C++ offers is the most powerful of any imperative language, and (subjective opinion…

have you written about this anywhere, or hosting any examples?

You might find Functional Programming in C++ by Ivan Cukic relevant.

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#15
post #8

You can take for (auto const & ess : esses) { ... } from my cold dead hands. Also, you can fight me if you want to take dynamic_cast (base_ptr) and force me to implement my own typing system every time I need to upcast. Basically, stick with C and leave C++ programmers alone. I haven't seen a less useful article about C++ in a long time, and as an HN reader, that's really saying something.

One thing I've noticed about a lot of these "strict C" developers is that quite often they actually refuse to learn C++. One of the most common complaints of C developers regarding C++ is "it does things behind the scenes/performs magic", often with regards to operator overloading. When they refuse to actually look at the implementation (y'know you can check if an operator has been overloaded) AND they refuse to ackn…

A lot of us are too busy solving problems. Learning about the latest language features, which we often won't be able to use anyway due to the trouble of moving a large dev environment to a newer standard, feels like academic masturbation.

C++ folks are very much into their language, and can't seem to understand that most folks don't want to dedicate significant amounts of mental resources purely to language details.

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#16
This is gonna be a long critique, I'll try to keep it concise.

> C-like C++ is good start, if code doesn’t require more complexity don’t add unnecessary C++ complexities.

C is almost obsolete nowadays. Not to mention that C++ is effectively a strict superset of C (nearly 99% of the C standard is in C++) and the few features that aren't are included as compiler extensions (VLA, restrict keyword, nested functions). There are a handful of C features that aren't in C++, and for very good reason (most of them suck). When was the last time you ran into a C library that a pure C++ compiler couldn't compile? Only if someone decided to spam the new keyword all over the codebase (or something similar).

> In general case code should be readable to anyone who is familiar with C language.

Most C++ already is? Even very template heavy C++.

> Don’t do this, the end of “design rationale” in Orthodox C++ should be immedately after “Quite simple, and it is usable. EOF”.

A lot of the methods in that document are necessary to make C++ shine, especially template metaprogramming.

> Don’t use exceptions.

Optional but irrelevant.

> Don’t use RTTI.

.. Why? Reimplementing RTTI in C will give you almost the same overhead.

> Don’t use C++ runtime wrapper for C runtime includes (, , etc.), use C runtime instead (, , etc.)

.. Why? Those wrappers all include the "raw C runtime" under the hood (literally they do #include . Near 0 compiletime overhead?

> Don’t use stream (, , etc.), use printf style functions instead.

This is a design decision.

> Don’t use metaprogramming excessively for academic masturbation. Use it in moderation, only where necessary, and where it reduces code complexity.

There are many programs that are _impossible_ to write in a finite time without metaprogramming. How will you (with zero runtime overhead) dispatch a function with a variable arity of random types to a handler that requires exactly that type of function? Arbitrarily? In C++ it's possible, in C it isn't.

Re: Orthodox C++ (2016)

#17
post #7

I've developed a style that I legitimately call Heterodox C++ (mainly due to the popularity of Orthodox C++), it is effectively a purely functional & metaprogramming heavy style of C++. Quite the opposite of this, not everyones cup of tea, and it won't fit into every codebase but it is incredibly powerful. The template metaprogramming C++ offers is the most powerful of any imperative language, and (subjective opinion…

have you written about this anywhere, or hosting any examples?

Not yet, I might one day.
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