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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#101

Post by jongjong »

dgellow wrote: post #95
lifestyleguru wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DACH societies are extremely class based, in fact most of European royal families come from there. They take it as a point of honor to be rude or at least gruff in daily interactions, it's not about you. Their cynicism is indeed a poison, no need for it as the real life will bring enough unexpected challenges.

European royal families have pretty much nothing to do with the modern DACH region, and compared to the UK royal families in continental Europe have very little influence. But the rest is pretty much true unfortunately, though I wouldn't call the behavior rude because it's not seen as rudeness by people who do it. It's more that being optimistic, feeling surprised by things, expressing strong emotions is all seen as…

Made me chuckle. I think I know what you mean about "expressing strong emotions" - This is how a lot of Europeans view Americans specifically.

I think the Australian version of naivety is more about meritocratic ideas and flat social hierarchies. Australians aren't usually loud or opinionated. European CEOs may not like it if an employee reaches out to them directly. In Australia, the startup CEO usually tries to be friends with the employees so it feels natural to reach out to the CEO directly and they often reach out to you. In Europe, I get the sense that CEOs believe that they're too important to talk to employees. This has been my experience at startups of similar sizes.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#102

Post by s5300 »

taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

[dead]

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#103

Post by taurath »

jongjong wrote: post #61
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

Yes 100%. I was born upper middle class. I have a BIT from a global top 50 University. I understood this after working in cryptocurrency sector in Germany. After I left Australia and moved to Europe, I realized after some time that 'the matrix' had demoted me into a lower social class. I had to work harder for less money and had access to fewer opportunities. Then I joined the crypto sector and the people there seeme…

> mechanisms built into the system to prevent people from different classes to meet

IME these mechanisms are a natural outflow of how those with money and power delegate power or invest money.

I have friends with a private plane. I also have friends who are scrambling to make rent, among many other friends always worried about their next paycheck. When you put the two together, you’ll find they can’t really engage in conversation about their lives without extreme embarassment - the plane people could solve most of the immediate problems facing the paycheck folks with barely a dent in their lifestyle.

So the plane people end up around people they can talk about vacation spots with, and the paycheck people hang around people who are empathetic and participate together in mutual aid to get thru. Rarely do the paycheck folks become plane people (they’re too generous or focus on maximizing other aspects of their lives than income). Rarely do the plane people actually help the paycheck people, except indirectly.

Inequality is embarrassing. Our society is embarrassing. That there is no safety net and basic needs being met being demanded by everyone from the poor to the richest of the rich can ONLY happen because they don’t interact. I see a huge backlash coming and it will not hit equally, or fairly. No society can continue like this without breaking down.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#104

Post by dgellow »

jongjong wrote: post #101
dgellow wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European royal families have pretty much nothing to do with the modern DACH region, and compared to the UK royal families in continental Europe have very little influence. But the rest is pretty much true unfortunately, though I wouldn't call the behavior rude because it's not seen as rudeness by people who do it. It's more that being optimistic, feeling surprised by things, expressing strong emotions is all seen as…

Made me chuckle. I think I know what you mean about "expressing strong emotions" - This is how a lot of Europeans view Americans specifically. I think the Australian version of naivety is more about meritocratic ideas and flat social hierarchies. Australians aren't usually loud or opinionated. European CEOs may not like it if an employee reaches out to them directly. In Australia, the startup CEO usually tries to be…

> In Europe, I get the sense that CEOs believe that they're too important to talk to employees

In Switzerland and Germany that's pretty much true, yes. As a contractor I really prefer working with UK and US companies, the communication is as you describe, more friendly and natural, and they are generally more than happy to see someone who wants to take initiatives (in fact it is expected)

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#105

Post by zipy124 »

taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

This is completely correct. It's the same reason why an MBA or PhD can be valuable if you want to go the management track. In Europe specifically - especially in the UK - the class based system is still alive and kicking and is based on subtle tells such as education, name, accent and more. It's less overt than in say India, but still very much present.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#106

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Terr_ wrote: post #68
wasabi991011 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would their rent payment be affected in any way? They aren't a junior

Wouldn't it be uncharitable to assume that the commenter is totally selfish and short-sighted? :p It may be a cliche, but it's all connected. In a general sense, programmers at different experience levels are at least partially substitutable goods. A crash in wages on one group will probably affect that other. In a more specific sense, companies won't pay seniors for skills at mentoring and managing the juniors they…

Longer term this kind of stupidity will destroy the economy from both ends.

Unless there's an unexpected jump in AI IQ, vibe-coded projects will start to unravel, but the companies won't have the resources to hire the human coders needed to fix the code.

Meanwhile a lot of people with real skills and ability will have been unemployed long enough to depress spending across the entire economy.

Those same people would have been prime drivers of spending, because they were one of the few demographics with significant disposable income and the ability to afford high rents and property prices.

You can see where this is going.

The people running the companies can't. Or if they can, they maybe believe they have an escape route.

That will turn out to be a fantasy too.

The problem isn't AI. it's an economy running on fantasy numbers that are unmoored from economic and physical reality.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#107

Post by s5300 »

vanuatu wrote: post #40

Im quite bullish on CS degrees, they equip you with a network and the general "vibe" of being in a common environment with other smart passionate kids that push you to challenge yourself also right now nothing is higher signal than a new grad who built a product with actual paying users

[dead]

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#108

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #25
mamidon wrote: post #5

This may be a cynical take, but as someone with 10+ years of experience why should I care if companies are too short sighted to value and train juniors?

It would actually be good for us… I never understood why software engineers were so excited about open source and teaching everyone to code. Why aren‘t we more like doctors or lawyers?

Because engineers enjoy tinkering more than anything, and they love telling everyone how fun tinkering is, and there was a narrative that tinkering was empowering and everyone should know how to do it, with a side order of "And if you get really good you can build a business and become super-rich too."

But the reality is law is primarily about social capital, medicine has more of that than most people realise, and computer people love to pretend social capital is something other people do, and they don't need to.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#109

Post by anal_reactor »

mc32 wrote: post #98
anal_reactor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I do the reverse of that. I dress like shit and when introducing myself I specifically use the word "immigrant" rather than "expat" because signalling high social position attracts people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return.

immigrants are people who tend to stay and don’t have plans to return to their home countries. Expats are temporary immigrants typically paid by their company to move and intend to move back to their home countries once the assignment is over.

Ain't nobody calling seasonal minimum-wage workers "expats".
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