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Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

canada.com

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Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#11

Post by exit »

goolulusaurs wrote: post #9
exit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would understanding intelligence be a prerequisite to running low level simulations of the brain? we can simulate computers without understanding the software that runs on them.

Because in the brain, the hardware and the software are the same thing. To understand what processes the brain carries out would be to understand intelligence.

understanding what processes the brain carries out goes beyond being aware of its structure and localised functionalities.

i don't see why this high level understand would be a prerequisite to running a simulation of the brain.

by the way, hardware and software is always the same thing. my simulation of a laptop will include a pattern of high and low magnetic charges on its simulated hard disc, without my understanding the software which those patterns ultimately actualise.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#12

Post by ekianjo »

goolulusaurs wrote: post #9
exit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would understanding intelligence be a prerequisite to running low level simulations of the brain? we can simulate computers without understanding the software that runs on them.

Because in the brain, the hardware and the software are the same thing. To understand what processes the brain carries out would be to understand intelligence.

Well you do not need to understand the low level of physics (quantum physics) to make very accurate predictions about ballistics with traditional, high level physics rules. You could as well understand the overall principles of the brain and have a high level model for it instead of trying to understand its smallest parts. This approach is also very valid, it all depends on what your expectations are.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#13

Post by jayfuerstenberg »

I'll probably be down-voted here for even saying this but I think we shouldn't endow machines with too much intelligence too fast. It won't be too long before we learn how to make them sentient and that's when we'll decide to accept them as equals or not.

At least until we as humans learn to get along better we might be better to hold off on this. Dumb robots that know how to do one thing and do it well will surely suffice for the meantime.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#14

Post by georgeorwell »

lutze wrote: post #10
georgeorwell wrote: post #3

Here's the paper in Science for anyone with an account: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/338/6111/1202.abstract?si... I couldn't find a pdf that wasn't behind a paywall. Also, there are different details at popsci.com: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-11/meet-spaun-fir... As for my own comments, I think it's actually a promising approach but that down the road it will be necessary to model emotions if hum…

Emotions are difficult, as they're (probably) as much physiological responses as they are cognitive ones. You could possibly simulate those, but I'd ask why bother? Why would we need AI to be human-like at all? We already have a form of human intelligence, us! It's like the android fixation with robotics... arguably the most useful robots don't look anything like us. The human brain is a good starting point, but in t…

Well, one argument is that if you had a human that just didn't feel emotions, you'd have a psychopath. Our capacity for empathy and the ability to share in each other's emotions stops us from doing harmful things that are in our 'rational self interest'. I'm not convinced that I want to live in a world with AI's that are as cognitively powerful as humans but are incapable of feeling emotions because I'm afraid they'd behave like psychopaths.

But, you know, maybe you're right, if human safety is somehow factored into things then it could work.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#15

Post by carbocation »

ekianjo wrote: post #12
goolulusaurs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the brain, the hardware and the software are the same thing. To understand what processes the brain carries out would be to understand intelligence.

Well you do not need to understand the low level of physics (quantum physics) to make very accurate predictions about ballistics with traditional, high level physics rules. You could as well understand the overall principles of the brain and have a high level model for it instead of trying to understand its smallest parts. This approach is also very valid, it all depends on what your expectations are.

Indeed, simulating the brain using a level of abstraction we think to be correct may be a reasonable way to try to understand which level is actually the relevant one for the brain's most important functions.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#16

Post by [deleted] »

georgeorwell wrote: post #3

Here's the paper in Science for anyone with an account: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/338/6111/1202.abstract?si... I couldn't find a pdf that wasn't behind a paywall. Also, there are different details at popsci.com: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-11/meet-spaun-fir... As for my own comments, I think it's actually a promising approach but that down the road it will be necessary to model emotions if hum…

[deleted]

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#18

Post by rck »

lutze wrote: post #10
georgeorwell wrote: post #3

Here's the paper in Science for anyone with an account: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/338/6111/1202.abstract?si... I couldn't find a pdf that wasn't behind a paywall. Also, there are different details at popsci.com: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-11/meet-spaun-fir... As for my own comments, I think it's actually a promising approach but that down the road it will be necessary to model emotions if hum…

Emotions are difficult, as they're (probably) as much physiological responses as they are cognitive ones. You could possibly simulate those, but I'd ask why bother? Why would we need AI to be human-like at all? We already have a form of human intelligence, us! It's like the android fixation with robotics... arguably the most useful robots don't look anything like us. The human brain is a good starting point, but in t…

You're right that a lot of the most useful AIs won't (or don't) need to think like humans, but one large class of AIs that will at least need that capability are the ones that have to interact with people in social settings. I'd be surprised if that didn't become common.

As for simulating emotion, there's a bit of evidence that such abilities may have therapeutic applications:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/robots-children-autism/story?id...

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#19

Post by georgeorwell »

guscost wrote: post #8

According to the article "there are no connections in Spaun that aren't seen in the brain." I'm assuming there are many connections in the brain that aren't implemented in Spaun.

Yeah, there's a big difference between if and iff that is often glossed over in announcements like this. Still, it's a start.

Re: Canadian scientists create a functioning, virtual brain

#20

Post by mvleming »

jacalulu wrote: post #2

I find AI absolutely fascinating. I was having coffee earlier this week with someone working on this and he was telling me that although they have managed to accomplish this, there are still parts of what Spaun can accomplish that they can't quite explain.

Can you elaborate on the parts of what Spaun can accomplish that they can't quite explain? I'm very interested in this.
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