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There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

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Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#181

Post by BrenBarn »

modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

> I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement!

That is not the problem with government involvement, it is the problem with bad governments.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#182

Post by latexr »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #138
temporaryacc2 wrote: post #96

The excessive scepticism on Hacker News has poisoned any attempts at rational AI discourse. The American Government has weaponised state power in a clumsy, corrupt and punitive attack against Anthropic, in an escalating war over control of AI. Meanwhile, HN has anchored on "marketing hype" as the only possible explanation - all evidence is contorted to fit into this increasingly contrived explanation. Object level an…

This is so true, if anyone posts any positive aspect of AI, those comments are downvoted to abyss. As a software developer I understand how others sees AI as a threat to their job safety and saying AI is evil and must be stopped is so selfish when AI truly can lift millions out of abject poverty in the future. What’s so funny is that same people are the ones that identify themselves as liberals as long as they can ke…

> As a software developer I understand how others sees AI as a threat to their job safety

This again. For the umpteenth time, not everything is about jobs and money. There are at least a dozen other more valid reasons to be critical or skeptical of AI and the people who control them.

Maybe money and job security is all you think about when you think about AI, but I promise you the rest of the world has many other reasons.

> AI truly can lift millions out of abject poverty in the future.

Pray tell, how exactly will that happen, and what’s the time frame for that future?

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#183

Post by graemep »

smooc wrote: post #109

This should be a red herring for Europe (and others using US models). Every non-American company is now at a disadvantage against American companies. The implications can not be overstated.

Google Deepmind is headquartered in the UK and has R & D in multiple countries. How would the US ban non-nationals from using something that is largely developed outside the US by people who are not US nationals?

Mistral might be a bit behind but this might give them a lot more business.

Most of all, a lot more people will switch to Chinese models. They will catchup, soon enough.

I have not had much of a chance to try Fable, but it did not seem better than Opus for what I tried it out on. Maybe its better on bigger jobs/vibe coding type tasks which is not something I do anyway.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#184

Post by eps »

modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

This government is corrupt to the core, with individuals in it wanting a piece of the pie for themselves. Anthropic wouldn't share, hence the reprecussions.

It is an extreme edge case and the argument for a sane government oversight is still perfectly valid. No oversight makes corporations dump waste into the water supply and market asbestos-lined cigarettes. It's naive to think that no oversight is needed.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#185

Post by flanked-evergl »

graemep wrote: post #175
flanked-evergl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That index confuses voting or even liberal democracy with democracy. A multitude of different peoples voting to rule over the others is not democratic and will never be democratic. Just because the voting process is secure does not make it democratic. What makes it democratic is that a people rules themselves, nothing else. Zulus ruling over Xhosas is not democratic just because the Zulus give the Xhosas votes becaus…

That is only an issue if you have sufficiently deep ethnic divisions within a country that people automatically vote on ethnic lines.

[flagged]

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#186

Post by graemep »

coldtea wrote: post #171
graemep wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is worse. No government at all implies anarchy which is worse that all but the very worst governments, and from which IMO some form of government will emerge anyway.

>No government at all implies anarchy* No government at all can just imply anarchism, ie. a kind of self-governing that doesn't ascribe to our conventional ideas about government, presidents, pms, members of parliament, senators, etc.

That is what I meant by anarchy - the state anarchism wants to achieve. Collins dictionary says anarchy is "4. the theory or practice of political anarchism" but it seems it might be a British usage.

I do not think it is something that will work in practice, nor do I think it would be stable if it did.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#187

Post by graemep »

graemep wrote: post #172
PowerElectronix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pick which of the two possibilities, neither of which is even close to your political views, will oppress you for the next 4 years.

That is true in the US, but that is not typical. I cannot think of another democracy that is as firmly two party as the US. Even the UK which I felt was too two party has always had some smaller parties (for many decades the Liberals, and then the Lib Dems, and Northern Irish parties), many smaller ones more recently (add the Scottish and Welsh Nationalists) and with two smaller parties gaining a lot of ground in the…

To add, the multiple parties in the UK just means I have more choices that are not close to my political views!

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#188

Post by logicchains »

Marazan wrote: post #178
dxuh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should be noted that the current government, which did this silly thing, belongs to a party that is pretty much advertising on wanting to be a smaller government that gets involved less. That is a large part of why people vote for them.

"Small government" is a euphemism for letting racist people be racist without censure.

[flagged]

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#189

Post by dudefeliciano »

rustcleaner wrote: post #176
dudefeliciano wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those are "taking away your guns" and you forgot to answer my second question. Is concealed carry essential to overthrow a tyrannical government?

It raises the risks for the enforcers taking a paycheck to oppress the [subset of the] population. Bullies think twice when they can be punched square in the face.

Riiiiight, it doesn't just make the bully invest billions in military grade weapons to be used against civilians. Soon you'll have superdrones with superguns patrolling the US and you will still be clinging to your right to carry a musket.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#190

Post by logicchains »

echelon wrote: post #99
temporaryacc2 wrote: post #96

The excessive scepticism on Hacker News has poisoned any attempts at rational AI discourse. The American Government has weaponised state power in a clumsy, corrupt and punitive attack against Anthropic, in an escalating war over control of AI. Meanwhile, HN has anchored on "marketing hype" as the only possible explanation - all evidence is contorted to fit into this increasingly contrived explanation. Object level an…

Most of the people on HN thinking this stuff is garbage won't be working in tech in five years. There simply won't be jobs for them. The risk is that all of these very incredibly smart and disgruntled people decide to do something about it. Elite overproduction, but instead as a result of enormous shift in supply side economics.

>these very incredibly smart

The incredibly smart ones are able to use AI to multiply their productivity. The ones having a bad time with it from vibe coding and vague prompting aren't that.

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