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Electric motors with no rare earths

renaultgroup.com

81–90 of 231 posts

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K. It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?

The bit the gets me more than the sale price is servicing. BMWs have a terrible record for needing expensive repairs. I know you shouldn’t rely on anecdote, but it seems I do.

The only way I would buy a BMW is if it were an EV. I’m just not brave (or rich) enough to buy their ICEs.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bit the gets me more than the sale price is servicing. BMWs have a terrible record for needing expensive repairs. I know you shouldn’t rely on anecdote, but it seems I do.

If you take care of the car it’s just brake pads, tires, rotors. Pads and rotors are really simple to DIY. Tires are more expensive than like… an Elantra, but if you’re buying a 60k car you can afford 1.2k in tires… otherwise don’t buy the car. If you get into an accident or let the bmw get into disrepair via neglect, yeah it’s not cheap to clean up. Body work is expensive on any car though, and I don’t have sympathy…

It's more than that though. Any repairs due to wear and tear or whatever, ends up being really expensive. Although you can probably reduce the costs a bit if you get the non-branded OEM part or potentially the same part from another manufacturer (e.g. the toyota supra uses a lot of bmw parts so if the toyota part might be cheaper than the same bmw part).

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#83

A historical pioneer in the complex technology of electric motors without magnets Those who know the history of electric machines will find the title and verbiage very amusing. Motors with no permanent magnets were the first practical ones, and at this point wound-rotor motors are over a century old. It's worth noting that some of the biggest motors have always been designed this way, because the size of magnets requ…

Long ago, when I was in Cub Scouts, one of the projects was to build an electric motor. The parts list was:

1. a plank to form the base

2. several 6 inch nails

3. wire

4. a tin can (as a source of sheet metal)

5. tape

No magnets. But it worked perfectly fine when connected to a dry cell. Adventurous science lad that I was, I decided it would work better when connected to AC. So I attached a power cord and plugged it in.

A loud vibration ensued, and then it burst into flames. My mom wasn't happy.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#84

A historical pioneer in the complex technology of electric motors without magnets Those who know the history of electric machines will find the title and verbiage very amusing. Motors with no permanent magnets were the first practical ones, and at this point wound-rotor motors are over a century old. It's worth noting that some of the biggest motors have always been designed this way, because the size of magnets requ…

Long ago, when I was in Cub Scouts, one of the projects was to build an electric motor. The parts list was: 1. a plank to form the base 2. several 6 inch nails 3. wire 4. a tin can (as a source of sheet metal) 5. tape No magnets. But it worked perfectly fine when connected to a dry cell. Adventurous science lad that I was, I decided it would work better when connected to AC. So I attached a power cord and plugged it…

P.S. I still use tin cans as a source of sheet metal. There was a big storm a while ago, with tree branches whistling by at high speed. (Not a good time to be outside.)

Three holes were punched in the house by the branches, 1-2 inches in diameter. What to do, what to do. I took a coke can, slit it and unrolled it into sheet metal. Then cut a disk bigger than the hole, and epoxied it into place. Worked like a charm, and cost nothing.

I've used coke can metal for shingles and flashing, too. They don't rust.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take care of the car it’s just brake pads, tires, rotors. Pads and rotors are really simple to DIY. Tires are more expensive than like… an Elantra, but if you’re buying a 60k car you can afford 1.2k in tires… otherwise don’t buy the car. If you get into an accident or let the bmw get into disrepair via neglect, yeah it’s not cheap to clean up. Body work is expensive on any car though, and I don’t have sympathy…

It's more than that though. Any repairs due to wear and tear or whatever, ends up being really expensive. Although you can probably reduce the costs a bit if you get the non-branded OEM part or potentially the same part from another manufacturer (e.g. the toyota supra uses a lot of bmw parts so if the toyota part might be cheaper than the same bmw part).

That was my whole point actually, the wear and tear is really minimal if you get regular oil changes. Things don’t just break and need replacing. Tires, rotors, brakes, those wear out. The tires are not cheap, rotors and pads aren’t crazy expensive and super easy to DIY.

What other wear and tear things are expensive?

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#86
post #3

The main difference between this and your typical AC induction motors (also magnet free) is that this is a DC motor so you need a commutator. Your AC induction magnet free motors are very similar to drone motors in that you don't have any electrically active moving parts like slip rings and commutators. But for AC induction there will be a slight lag (known as slip).

They are electronically commutated. The stator field is more or less variable AC.

The inductance ones yes, not these ones.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#87

A historical pioneer in the complex technology of electric motors without magnets Those who know the history of electric machines will find the title and verbiage very amusing. Motors with no permanent magnets were the first practical ones, and at this point wound-rotor motors are over a century old. It's worth noting that some of the biggest motors have always been designed this way, because the size of magnets requ…

Long ago, when I was in Cub Scouts, one of the projects was to build an electric motor. The parts list was: 1. a plank to form the base 2. several 6 inch nails 3. wire 4. a tin can (as a source of sheet metal) 5. tape No magnets. But it worked perfectly fine when connected to a dry cell. Adventurous science lad that I was, I decided it would work better when connected to AC. So I attached a power cord and plugged it…

Been there. Im gonna guess that 90% of HN folk have similar stories to tell.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long ago, when I was in Cub Scouts, one of the projects was to build an electric motor. The parts list was: 1. a plank to form the base 2. several 6 inch nails 3. wire 4. a tin can (as a source of sheet metal) 5. tape No magnets. But it worked perfectly fine when connected to a dry cell. Adventurous science lad that I was, I decided it would work better when connected to AC. So I attached a power cord and plugged it…

P.S. I still use tin cans as a source of sheet metal. There was a big storm a while ago, with tree branches whistling by at high speed. (Not a good time to be outside.) Three holes were punched in the house by the branches, 1-2 inches in diameter. What to do, what to do. I took a coke can, slit it and unrolled it into sheet metal. Then cut a disk bigger than the hole, and epoxied it into place. Worked like a charm, a…

there's also a plastic liner on them that I'm sure helps.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#89
post #74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a layman that seems like a really small efficiency tax if you can't get your hands on the magnets for some reason.

It’s a near-doubling of energy loss - probably a healthier way to understand it when the efficiencies are all 90%+

Funnily enough if enough of that energy loss (heat) can be scavange, this wouldn't be nearly that bad for us living up here in the cold.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. I still use tin cans as a source of sheet metal. There was a big storm a while ago, with tree branches whistling by at high speed. (Not a good time to be outside.) Three holes were punched in the house by the branches, 1-2 inches in diameter. What to do, what to do. I took a coke can, slit it and unrolled it into sheet metal. Then cut a disk bigger than the hole, and epoxied it into place. Worked like a charm, a…

there's also a plastic liner on them that I'm sure helps.

It also helps that they are made from aluminum which doesn’t rust like iron does.
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