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Open source AI must win

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Re: Open source AI must win

#141

Post by echelon »

Grombobulous wrote: post #136
echelon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am astonished on a daily basis that my Linux computer is so close to the same experience as two operating systems put out by trillion dollar companies. It even does things that those commercial alternatives don’t do. We live in a world where you can "port" open source software to a new language (Rust) and close it up. Linux will be ported to Rust and closed. It'll probably also be put under MIT/BSD because nobody…

There’s a lot of merit to what you’re saying, but I don’t share that high level of pessimism. The scenario you describe is basically that software is free as in beer now. We as a corporation don’t really need to bother using GPL/Apache licensed software because we can one-shot something of our own and not deal with with giving back contributions to the open source community. But that highway goes both directions. Tha…

I suppose you're right. All software is about to be as valuable as a single jpeg you see on your Instagram feed.

What matters is physical infrastructure (datacenters), the lead on competitors / open source models, and distribution/mindshare.

Re: Open source AI must win

#142

Post by verdverm »

nl wrote: post #48
em-bee wrote: post #9

what is Open Source AI even? to me Open Source, like Free Software, is something i can run on my own computer. any AI system that runs on a computer that i do not control is by my definition not Open Source. so how then can Open Source AI win? it can't even compete. even if we collect enough money and create a dedicated Open Source organization to build and run a community owned AI datacenter, how does that help? so…

When kubernetes was released there were very few people who could run it, and even less that could run it usefully. Right now there a few people who can run a 1T model at home, even less who can run a 5T model and probably single digits who can run a 10T model. But if an open source 10T model was available you can be sure people would find new ways to quantize it, new ways to configure hardware and and new ways to th…

case in point: https://spark-arena.com/leaderboard

Re: Open source AI must win

#143

Post by kamaal »

Grombobulous wrote: post #136
echelon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am astonished on a daily basis that my Linux computer is so close to the same experience as two operating systems put out by trillion dollar companies. It even does things that those commercial alternatives don’t do. We live in a world where you can "port" open source software to a new language (Rust) and close it up. Linux will be ported to Rust and closed. It'll probably also be put under MIT/BSD because nobody…

There’s a lot of merit to what you’re saying, but I don’t share that high level of pessimism. The scenario you describe is basically that software is free as in beer now. We as a corporation don’t really need to bother using GPL/Apache licensed software because we can one-shot something of our own and not deal with with giving back contributions to the open source community. But that highway goes both directions. Tha…

>>We don’t really need to bother using GPL/Apache licensed software because we can one-shot something of our own and not bother with giving back contributions.

Thinking of a open weight/source AI as gcc/perl was in the 1990s is more helpful line of approach to take here.

The tool used to achieve a thing must be open.

Re: Open source AI must win

#144

Post by ramcrissesangry »

echelon wrote: post #103
ramcrissesangry wrote: post #89

As an person whos getting into tech and already developing a game, the fact that laptop prices since 2020 have increased by 20-40% is insane. It's delaying the time to create my game. I researched the reason for the cost spike, and most of it is from the excessive money put in ai Technically, the owners of AI could slow down the amount of GPUs and RAM they buy because AI has almost reached its most usable peak. Every…

> because AI has almost reached its most usable peak It doesn't seem to be showing any signs of stopping. Have you used Fable 5? It's a fantastically capable model and trumps anything that came before it. Seedance 2.0 is categorically the best video model, and it's only a few months old. > the entire business is run by a few old men Startups tend to skew young, and in this case it's no different. Most of the leaders…

thx I will consider what you sent.

Re: Open source AI must win

#145

Post by ramcrissesangry »

dakolli wrote: post #94
ramcrissesangry wrote: post #89

As an person whos getting into tech and already developing a game, the fact that laptop prices since 2020 have increased by 20-40% is insane. It's delaying the time to create my game. I researched the reason for the cost spike, and most of it is from the excessive money put in ai Technically, the owners of AI could slow down the amount of GPUs and RAM they buy because AI has almost reached its most usable peak. Every…

Why have you sent this same message multiple times?

I didn't know how this worked I thought it deleated it, at first.

Re: Open source AI must win

#146

Post by verdverm »

bitwize wrote: post #95
singpolyma3 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs that you can run locally on hardware that is not out of range to acquire is already a thing for some time.

Recently I fired up Gemma4-26B-A4B on my 8-year-old PC... and it ran surprisingly well! But I am going to need a much beefier machine to get it to the point where it can do any but very trivial dev tasks acceptably fast, and I'm going to need a much beefier model , perhaps one not so aggressively quantized, to keep it on task without the wheels completely falling off. Already we're talking serious money outlay, perha…

DGX Spark runs this sized model (I personally like qwen36moe better than gemma4moe) at speeds fast enough for interactive coding sessions. Algorithmic advances like DiffusionGemma ~4x token gen speeds (https://deepmind.google/models/gemma/diffusiongemma/)

Re: Open source AI must win

#147

Post by Grombobulous »

WarmWash wrote: post #133
Grombobulous wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your concerns, although we still see pretty similarly large and complex things that remain open source today. I am astonished on a daily basis that my Linux computer is so close to the same experience as two operating systems put out by trillion dollar companies. It even does things that those commercial alternatives don’t do. Also, if DeepSeek is truly putting out models with 1/10th the cost of Western compe…

Software is "free" though, which is why it has such a vibrant open source scene. One guy can code for a weekend and fill the screens of 5 million with something fun by Monday. However, Once real costs are involved, participation tanks. Open source hardware, because it actually requires money to realize, has 1/10,000 the depth of open source software, if that. Obviously everyone wants an open source AI, but virtually…

Admittedly, I don’t know how the gap you’re describing gets closed.

With a lot of OSS it’s just free volunteer hours.

Compute isn’t free.

The closest thing I can think of is the idea that some group of businesses who can benefit from open models being around might fund that sort of thing. It’s just hard to imagine who they might be.

Re: Open source AI must win

#148

Post by cindyllm »

ai_fry_ur_brain wrote: post #72
aryasyn wrote: post #63

Definitely, but I see the gap widening everyday, especially while commercial AI models have started converging towards AGI. However I do believe and support the cause, as it's the next big thing as developers we need to take to prevent a complete monopoly in the coming few years.

"Converging towards AGI" These things can't even center a div correctly half the time. Not everything is code. Just because it generates a shitty SaaS clone for you and that seemed magical, it does not mean we are approaching "AGI". An AGI could design an Oil tanker, manage the project from start to finish, handle all contract negotiations and purchasables, payroll, scheduling. Then it could do that 50x over and star…

[dead]

Re: Open source AI must win

#149

Post by nullbio »

cwnyth wrote: post #139
nullbio wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Jensen (Nvidia) was doing interviews at his recent public talks, he was asked something along the lines of: "Why release these new laptops which are a low margin market, if your other businesses are vastly more profitable?" and his answer was basically that if they can build the coolest and best technology and push the frontier, they will do it. It's not all about making tons of money. He seemed genuinely excite…

That's not really the impression I get from Anthropic, but if you have the links to back it up, I'm always willing to change my mind. Compared to bizes like Oracle, Microsoft, or Facebook, I felt that Anthropic was more interested in progress (not to the neglect of business―AI training is expensive at the end of the day), but maybe I've just not seen what you've seen.

https://clawd.rip

Re: Open source AI must win

#150

Post by overgard »

gslepak wrote: post #23

Where does Anthropic or OpenAI winning leave us? Dependents of an AI-megacorp for our "facts"? Our software? Our work? It's possible these companies will become everyone's boss, and will dictate to everyone what everyone is allowed to work on, think, say, do, believe, etc. Before Big Tech springs that trap, we must support and divert resources to open models.

I don't think we're going to be "dependent", because I can't really think of anyone that "needs" this stuff (well, unless you're like attempting to build a business off skills you don't have). I guess this really comes down to if you believe the productivity story. I don't. I think there are some gains, but the evidence that isn't just anecdotes from vibe coders seems to be modest.
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