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Electric motors with no rare earths

renaultgroup.com

11–20 of 231 posts

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#11
post #4

BMW also makes rare-earths-free motors for their EVs and - at this very moment - theirs are far more advanced. They offer almost twice the power (up to 300kW vs 160kW) and are on a 800v architecture.

The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K.

It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#13
post #3

The main difference between this and your typical AC induction motors (also magnet free) is that this is a DC motor so you need a commutator. Your AC induction magnet free motors are very similar to drone motors in that you don't have any electrically active moving parts like slip rings and commutators. But for AC induction there will be a slight lag (known as slip).

They are electronically commutated. The stator field is more or less variable AC.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#14
post #2

Seems to be: replace permanent Nd magnet with an electromagnet.

So does it consume significantly more electricity?

Not really. The excitation power is a small fraction of the total.

The problem is that it makes the rotor far less mechanically robust and also heavier. That's why these motors are less powerful.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#15
post #6

How soon to see rare-earth-free paired with CATL Sodium batteries? Seems a price war, range war is imminent.

Could be wrong, but AFAIK the CATL Sodium batteries haven't yet hit LFP pricing.

You are unlikely to see a vehicle with sodium batteries until after that happens, and it needs to be significantly less than LFPs as you Na batteries have more weight per Wh. I believe they also have a shorter lifespan (but not NMC short). Edit correction, looks like CATL is promising 15000 cycles, which is much longer than LFPs which usually come in at 7000 to 10000.

It seems far more likely to me that if the Na prices tank, you'll probably first see them deployed as grid and home battery solutions.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#17
post #6

How soon to see rare-earth-free paired with CATL Sodium batteries? Seems a price war, range war is imminent.

Could be wrong, but AFAIK the CATL Sodium batteries haven't yet hit LFP pricing. You are unlikely to see a vehicle with sodium batteries until after that happens, and it needs to be significantly less than LFPs as you Na batteries have more weight per Wh. I believe they also have a shorter lifespan (but not NMC short). Edit correction, looks like CATL is promising 15000 cycles, which is much longer than LFPs which us…

One of the most interesting features of sodium batteries is that they still perform good in cold temperatures.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#19
post #4

BMW also makes rare-earths-free motors for their EVs and - at this very moment - theirs are far more advanced. They offer almost twice the power (up to 300kW vs 160kW) and are on a 800v architecture.

The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K. It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?

They share the same OEMs, and both are following the same ex-China automotive strategy.

Renault has also been thumbing China recently for undermining EU manufacturing as well [0] while China has returned to using Wolf Warrior diplomacy against Europe [1][2][3][4] using the same rhetoric that the Trump admin uses.

Of course, under the Xi admin China's foreign policy has always viewed the EU as inferior and a has-been [5] and has become an active participant in the Ukraine War [6][7].

Europe might not be able to trust the US, but it can't trust China either.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/renault-ceo-asks-eu-enco...

[1] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1361926.shtml

[2] - https://www.chinausfocus.com/finance-economy/dear-brussels-d...

[3] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1362161.shtml

[4] - http://news.china.com.cn/2026-06/10/content_118541873.shtml

[5] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht...

[6] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...

[7] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/12/8039041/

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#20
post #6

How soon to see rare-earth-free paired with CATL Sodium batteries? Seems a price war, range war is imminent.

Could be wrong, but AFAIK the CATL Sodium batteries haven't yet hit LFP pricing. You are unlikely to see a vehicle with sodium batteries until after that happens, and it needs to be significantly less than LFPs as you Na batteries have more weight per Wh. I believe they also have a shorter lifespan (but not NMC short). Edit correction, looks like CATL is promising 15000 cycles, which is much longer than LFPs which us…

Looks ideal for a power wall at home.
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