Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

phoronix.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 161 posts

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#151

Post by NotPractical »

br0wnr1c3 wrote: post #94
nosioptar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they allowed something similar on iphones, I'd switch to an iPhone the day an alternate os worked well enough for daily use.

why? In my mind the appeal of the iPhone is iOS. The hardware is nice, but so is the hardware of certain Android phones. I think it would be nice if we could run unsigned apps on iOS (in the US), but booting your own OS on an iPhone is a whole different story

> I think it would be nice if we could run unsigned apps on iOS

Apple enforces those restrictions via the permanently locked bootloader. The main benefit of unlocking the bootloader on an iPhone would be to run a modified version of iOS that allows for the installation of unsigned apps. Apple wouldn't like it and might even get litigious over it, but still.

> (in the US)

Apps intended for release onto alternative app stores in the EU, Japan, and Brazil still need to be approved and signed by Apple. These laws were nearly useless.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#152

Post by nosioptar »

NotPractical wrote: post #151
br0wnr1c3 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? In my mind the appeal of the iPhone is iOS. The hardware is nice, but so is the hardware of certain Android phones. I think it would be nice if we could run unsigned apps on iOS (in the US), but booting your own OS on an iPhone is a whole different story

> I think it would be nice if we could run unsigned apps on iOS Apple enforces those restrictions via the permanently locked bootloader. The main benefit of unlocking the bootloader on an iPhone would be to run a modified version of iOS that allows for the installation of unsigned apps. Apple wouldn't like it and might even get litigious over it, but still. > (in the US) Apps intended for release onto alternative app…

I'd run ios if I could build my own apps for it without begging for Apple's approval to use my own device.

Really, all I want from a phone is to be able to run Linux/xfce on it.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#153

Post by officeplant »

kjs3 wrote: post #85
officeplant wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are currently suffering from high power draw because they have to keep the cores awake for memory speeds. Lackluster performance as well, but thats the problem with the majority of the ARM ecosystem ever since apple started crafting SoCs.

I must have missed something...what does Apple creating M-series have to do with Allwinner, Qualcom, Mediatek, AWS, and the rest of the ARM ecosystem having 'lackluster performance'?

They showed what ARM could pull off, and no one has caught up since at least on a single core performance level.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#154

Post by odiroot »

inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

Maybe because you can just buy a nice ThinkPad, slap any distro on and be done with it. Without all this hassle.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#155

Post by carlosjobim »

cromka wrote: post #130
carlosjobim wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not some kind of god that will make others do your bidding if you pray enough to them. You've been misguided into following a false religion. For every niche thing you wish that Apple or other third parties do only for your own enjoyment, there are hundreds of millions of other people who want different niche things. Buy the products that suit your needs and wants, and companies have incentive to make them.…

> For every niche thing you wish that Apple or other third parties do only for your own enjoyment, there are hundreds of millions of other people who want different niche things. We're talking Apple publishing specs for their hardware. That's not some "niche, particular, random" feature each persons asks for. We're all asking the same thing. Same thing that IBM did and what made the PC and IT industry as we know it.…

> We're all asking the same thing.

I don't believe it. Ask a random number of people or a random number of Apple customers, and less than a fraction of a percent will say that the option to install Linux on their MacBook is what they most want from Apple.

More people will probably ask for a handle, or LED flashlight, or how about built-in invoicing software? Should the EU (praised be their names) force Apple to give these customers what they want? Why would their wants be any less important than yours?

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#156

Post by bigyabai »

AKSF_Ackermann wrote: post #148
bigyabai wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Microsoft futzes with the MBR and locks out Linux users, we complain. When Apple futzes with the APFS partition flags, we complain. It's not that hard to understand. > why would they, or any major OEM? Apple Silicon doesn't expose any obvious ACPI-equivalent power management interface. Apple could very easily document that hardware without exposing proprietary devicetree drivers, but someone internally must love…

> There isn't likely to be advanced power management drivers for Apple Silicon on Linux within this decade. Amazing levels of confidence, when per Asahi's last progress report, one exists already.

You should read the report, it basically repeats what I just said:

> The power management architecture on this platform is incredibly complex, and there are a lot of moving parts involved in making it all work. There is Power Manager (PMGR), which is responsible for the SoC’s power domains, but there is also the Power Management Processor (PMP), which does… stuff?

> The actual low-level details of how power is managed across the SoC are quite opaque. [...] PMP will not read these reports if it is not booted, and certain power management functionality will not work. We are not sure exactly what it does with this information, but it likely involves controlling Apple Fabric power and clocking, among other things.

> There is obviously still work to be done to reach macOS levels of idle and suspend time

I still do not think that we will get advanced power management equivalent to ACPI within this decade, unless Apple starts documenting stuff. It took Asahi six years to replace cpuidle on M1, we're going to be here for a while.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#157

Post by inventor7777 »

odiroot wrote: post #154
inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

Maybe because you can just buy a nice ThinkPad, slap any distro on and be done with it. Without all this hassle.

That's true, if you want a Linux laptop. However, no ThinkPad at this moment can come close to the horsepower + battery life in a modern Mac. Not saying Apple is excused because of that, just an observation.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#158

Post by inventor7777 »

sergeykish wrote: post #131
inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

Apple transformed handheld computing into walled garden, brainwashed installation into "sideloading". Apple software update made Apple laptops to fail booting Linux. "Concerned people are insane anti-Apple without any solid arguments, lol"

Not how I'm intending to come off as. I am more specifically mentioning the comments that say stuff like "Apple laptops are overpriced pieces of junk" but without thinking of those whose workflows would be impacted very negatively by moving to more open platforms (not because of the platform, but I mean because of hardware)

It's like they are looking at a specific application, finding that Macs are bad at it, and declaring it crap in every way, which isn't true.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#159

Post by kjs3 »

officeplant wrote: post #153
kjs3 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must have missed something...what does Apple creating M-series have to do with Allwinner, Qualcom, Mediatek, AWS, and the rest of the ARM ecosystem having 'lackluster performance'?

They showed what ARM could pull off, and no one has caught up since at least on a single core performance level.

Ah...it's "they haven't matched Apple" (not even Graviton?), not "Apple impeded them in some way". Fair, but that was not clear.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#160

Post by kjs3 »

bigyabai wrote: post #92
throawayonthe wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...why would they, this is a strict improvement with less surface area

Because it was a featureset they supported without trouble on prior Macs? The onus is on Apple to not make iBoot suck, they don't get a free pass for Microsoft-level boot volume ignorance.

The 'onus' is on Apple to support an OS they never said they'd support, to the potential detriment of the one they do support, because a tiny number of people bought Apple hardware to run...lemme look again...an OS Apple never said they'd support? That's an...interesting...point of view, but probably not suprising considering the pervasive "how dare you not do unpaid work to make me happy no matter what your priorities are" attitude running around OSS these days. At least Apple won't rage-quit the project or have a nervous breakdown because the free-riders are demanding something never promised.
Post reply on HN