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Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

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Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#131

Post by kouteiheika »

WarmWash wrote: post #105
jdw64 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias. And even…

Whether or not it's propaganda is different from the fact that it is owned by the CCP.

Doesn't matter, because they're open-weight, so I can just download them to my PC and... hey, look, now they're owned by me! Unlike the "good" Western counterparts which are all fully proprietary. (Except Mistral, but they're nowhere near SOTA.)

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#132

Post by WarmWash »

msdz wrote: post #103
WarmWash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you are just naive like so many others about China... China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in. But the capitalistic elements are mostly a facade. Underneath, the state retains full ownership and control of all business. The CCP runs all aspects of the government (including the courts/judges), and is the single entity that decides what directions the country (and it's busin…

> China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in. While I get the point you're making (it should be pretty obvious to anyone who's held a newspaper), I think it's important regardless to point out that Chinese companies AFAIK aren't worker-owned or -controlled, so you can't exactly call it communism, either. And they obviously do not have a "free market capitalism", as you just discussed.…

The companies are all worker owned, because the state exists for the people, and the state owns everything. At least on paper that's how it is sold. After all it is the Peoples Republic of China.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#133

Post by wmedrano »

WarmWash wrote: post #125
well_ackshually wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage. Sundar Pichai would personally be barking on a livestream on the homepage. Trump is quite literally the one president showing that the US has zero rules or anything to hold power back from the white house, really not the example you want.

Seems like everyday Trump has another order struck down by the courts. Sundar can do whatever he wants, but he has no legal obligation to do any of it.

> Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage.

I'm sorry, but that was a horrible example. Corporations have no obligation to donate money to the ballroom yet Google has donated millions.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#134

Post by [deleted] »

dcreater wrote: post #62
jdw64 wrote: post #43

Personally, when I use open code or routers, I feel that beyond a certain level, the models don't make a huge difference to me. Except for expensive and mediocre models like Gemini. In that sense, Chinese models are pretty good. I usually write code in function or method units and then design and assemble them together. GPT series models are more thorough and better, but I'm not sure if the difference is enormous. It…

I really hope we stop using the term "Chinese models". It has this air of Negative connotation. It's the equivalent of calling cars Japanese, which people used to do but now is almost entirely meaningless. You just call them Toyota, Honda, Lexus etc.

[deleted]

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#135

Post by WalterGR »

sjanes wrote: post #94
jdw64 wrote: post #43

Personally, when I use open code or routers, I feel that beyond a certain level, the models don't make a huge difference to me. Except for expensive and mediocre models like Gemini. In that sense, Chinese models are pretty good. I usually write code in function or method units and then design and assemble them together. GPT series models are more thorough and better, but I'm not sure if the difference is enormous. It…

I've kind of given up on the routers for "free" inference, as you would expect, they tend to give you sub-par thinking because they are obviously trying to conserve as much inference as possible. I've had some success turning my macbook M1 pro into a heating pad with Qwen 3.6 35B A3B MTP. Trying to use Gemini models "locally" resulted in a similar "short shrift" of effort resulting in mistakes and lots of turns. The…

> The reports of Fable being relentlessly "proactive"

For the curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48498573 - “Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive”.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#136

Post by SubiculumCode »

Has anyone taken these open weight models from China and stripped the CCP out of them? I do not mean that snarkily, I mean review them thoroughly using techniques for weight introspection (concept activations) in response to things that one might expect would trigger deceptive/malicious behavior if the CCP had actually tried to implant context-specific behaviors (e.g. the accusation of generating vulnerable code if being used in American government applications, which I don't know if it was ever proven).

Just in case there are those who'd reflexively down vote this post, I'd just like to say that in a time of great national geopolitical rivalries, this kind of question is not unreasonable one to ask. Indeed, its applicable question whichever nation you live in.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#137

Post by WalterGR »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #40

Reading their modified license terms, it cracks me up, because they've basically remade the MIT to be the MIT + the one clause that the BSD used to have, which didn't care about MAU or revenue, if you used it in a product, they asked you to 'advertise' them basically. Honestly, its a reasonable request.

> they asked you to 'advertise' them basically.

To be clear, the “advertising” clause just requires you to disclose that you use the thing somewhere in the product, such as credits in an “About” section.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#138

Post by overfeed »

Brendinooo wrote: post #126
kennywinker wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today? Only that it’s a fairly meaningless grouping. When japan first entered the car market in north america there might have been some commonality, but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have? They’re not even imported a lot of the time. Given that, it does start to feel tinged with racism if someone insists on grouping things together tha…

> now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have? Typically the answer is "reliability", which is a positive trait, which makes the original callout about negative connotations very odd to me.

Chinese AI models also share a positive trait: they offer more bang for the buck.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#139

Post by threethirtytwo »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #136

Has anyone taken these open weight models from China and stripped the CCP out of them? I do not mean that snarkily, I mean review them thoroughly using techniques for weight introspection (concept activations) in response to things that one might expect would trigger deceptive/malicious behavior if the CCP had actually tried to implant context-specific behaviors (e.g. the accusation of generating vulnerable code if b…

Eh even corporate created LLMs are suspect to corporate biases. Nothing is safe.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#140

Post by SubiculumCode »

jdw64 wrote: post #82
WarmWash wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias. And even…

The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.

We live in a time of a great geopolitical rivalry and high tensions with an emergent technology with tons of national security implications. To pretend otherwise is silly, and to fail to ask the question, dangerous.

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