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macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

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Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#131

Post by sergeykish »

inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

Apple transformed handheld computing into walled garden, brainwashed installation into "sideloading". Apple software update made Apple laptops to fail booting Linux.

"Concerned people are insane anti-Apple without any solid arguments, lol"

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#132

Post by streetfighter64 »

adrian_b wrote: post #127
inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

It was not a bug, it was just another undocumented Apple feature. However, when a company sells a device, as opposed to providing it for lease, I do not believe that it has the right to not document any feature of the device that is relevant for its usage, like it should also not have the right to impose any constraints on how the owner should use what has been bought. Obviously, the owner of any kind of things may n…

I mean, do you expect a blender to come with instructions on how to replace the engine?

> I do not believe that it has the right to not document any feature of the device that is relevant for its usage.

This is an extremely broad requirement to place on any and all manufacturers. I agree companies shouldn't intentionally restrict what you can do with your stuff, but on the other hand, if you're trying to rebuild your lawn mower into a motorbike, you can't really be mad that the company didn't provide you with a specification the exact dimensions of the exhaust, can you?

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#133

Post by dwaite »

bigyabai wrote: post #64
nomel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it just feels like a poorly-supported Linux distro. That's because it's Unix, not Linux.

macOS, as shipped, is only Unix-like. Even when configured to pass UNIX certification, it doesn't qualify without the temporary waivers: if you want your installation of macOS 15.0 to pass the UNIX® 03 certification test suites, you need to disable System Integrity Protection, enable the root account, enable core file generation, disable timeout coalescing, mount any APFS partitions with the strictatime option, forma…

> it doesn't qualify without the temporary waiver

The nature of temporary waivers makes this untrue per the post you cited - The Open Group only grants them for 12 months, and the post is over a year old.

IMO, the only significant call-out is APFS case insensitivity by default, which makes the default volume a non-conforming filesystem. However, UNIX certification does not forbid you from mounting non-conforming filesystems (such as FAT32). Instead, this means the majority of software which makes certain assumptions about being used with UNIX conforming filesystems in addition to running on a UNIX conforming operating system are at risk of breaking.

Let's just say I have my doubts the author would have written a similar post if the final HP-UX release had "lied" about their certification by shipping with root login disabled by default and ulimit -c defaulting to zero.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#134

Post by lispwitch »

HerbManic wrote: post #96
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most computers have been like that, FOSS got lucky that IBM failed to secure the PC for themselves, thus the PC clones. When folks say Intel and AMD are done, and we should all be on ARM, or RISC-V, beware of what to wish for. Yes there are device trees now, however someone has to keep them up to date, and that is only part of what makes a motherboard.

I have said it for a while, Microsoft's business strategy was probably the best thing that ever happened to Free/Open software. They were ones pushing for more open systems so that they could sell DOS and Windows to other vendors. yes, it left the door open for others but they also figured they could push their software far harder than others could. I agree with the ARM/RISCV stance that we should be cautious with wh…

This is also not guaranteed to be adopted widely, but the RISC-V Server Platform Specification was recently standardized with mandatory UEFI and ACPI support: https://github.com/riscv-non-isa/riscv-server-platform/relea... I'd rather have OpenFirmware like enterprise POWER, but anything is better than static device trees.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#135

Post by dwaite »

Rohansi wrote: post #52
theshrike79 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe this, the fight should be against PlayStation and Xbox. They’re 100% commodity hardware and fully locked down from any user freedom. Weirdly everyone focuses on Apple with all their might instead of gaming consoles.

They are actually not commodity hardware. The PlayStation and Xbox CPU/GPU is custom built for the console. Try finding a CPU that can use GDDR RAM!

What fundamentally makes a box which has a web browser, allows for third party app installs, and can drive them by connecting to a 4k monitor in addition to a keyboard and mouse different than a PC - other than the vendor setting policy such that their store only allows game and media streaming apps?

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#137

Post by AKSF_Ackermann »

okanat wrote: post #109
GeekyBear wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asahi Linux already does use an open source UEFI implementation (U-Boot) to boot Linux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_U-Boot The Asahi installer will also allow you to install UEFI alone, in case you want to use UEFI to install some other OS. The hardware management engines in modern x86 chips are backdoors running at a higher privilege level than the installed OS's kernel. It's hard to see them as anything else.

Apple's Secure Enclave and ARM's Truszone work the same way as Intel ME and AMD PSP. All of them have a separate specialized minimal OS running on a specially protected memory that cannot be accessed by the normal OS. Apple can lock your Mac just like other manufacturers can do via Intel ME. All of them are backdoors.

They don't. ME and PSP are separate cores with full memory and configuration bus access. TrustZone is nothing like this, it is a higher privilege level on the main cpu cores, more similar to SMM and used for pretty much the same purposes. Secure enclave is yet again nothing like any of the former and is similar to a TPM.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#138

Post by saagarjha »

okanat wrote: post #109
GeekyBear wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asahi Linux already does use an open source UEFI implementation (U-Boot) to boot Linux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_U-Boot The Asahi installer will also allow you to install UEFI alone, in case you want to use UEFI to install some other OS. The hardware management engines in modern x86 chips are backdoors running at a higher privilege level than the installed OS's kernel. It's hard to see them as anything else.

Apple's Secure Enclave and ARM's Truszone work the same way as Intel ME and AMD PSP. All of them have a separate specialized minimal OS running on a specially protected memory that cannot be accessed by the normal OS. Apple can lock your Mac just like other manufacturers can do via Intel ME. All of them are backdoors.

Secure Enclave is a completely different core, I don't understand why you are conflating it with TrustZone

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#139

Post by saagarjha »

well_ackshually wrote: post #67
GeekyBear wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> M series macs are weird More weird than the opaque Management Engines on Intel or AMD chips that can take full control of your system at any time that you have no control over? > Can't help but to think the goal of this wasn't to actually allow third-party OSes Apple has explicitly stated that allowing third party OSes is exactly the purpose of the new bootloader.

>More weird than the opaque Management Engines on Intel or AMD chips that can take full control of your system at any time that you have no control over? Considering they're pretty much fully undocumented (officially, that is) and could contain any number of IME equivalents since we know that they already have independent processors like the secure enclave running its own OS: yeah, probably more weird. Just because A…

There are plenty of people looking, not just the Asahi people.
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