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Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

simonwillison.net

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Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#321

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

exitb wrote: post #233
teraflop wrote: post #3

> But on the other hand... this is a robust reminder that coding agents can do anything you can do by typing commands into a terminal—and frontier models know every trick in the book and evidently a few that nobody has ever written down before. > Running coding agents outside of a sandbox has always been a bad idea I'm continually bemused and astonished by the number of people who clearly acknowledge that it's reckle…

You’ve picked an interesting example, as driving a car, even with all safety precautions, is pretty much the most dangerous activity we do on a daily basis. Yet somehow we decide that the benefits outweigh the risks.

user using computer is also the most dangerous activity to his data on a daily basis

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#322

Post by __alexs »

bsza wrote: post #280
exitb wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve picked an interesting example, as driving a car, even with all safety precautions, is pretty much the most dangerous activity we do on a daily basis. Yet somehow we decide that the benefits outweigh the risks.

It's a completely different story. For cars, it happened because of relentless pressure from the auto lobby. It took years of propaganda from oil companies, car makers etc. to make us think the road is for cars [1]. We demolished and rebuilt entire cities to accommodate cars, partly because they gutted the public transport sector [2]. This made our infrastructure so hostile to our own bodies that we have no choice bu…

I mean that kind of seems like exactly what's happening for AI to me.

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#323

Post by schnitzelstoat »

esafak wrote: post #102
jeeeb wrote: post #49

This is simultaneously amazing and horrifying. I feel like we’re at the stage where if AI decides it needs to delete your production DB to solve the user login problem, then it’ll find a way to do just that.

We're approaching the "Sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that" stage.

We are already there but it's "Sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't tell you what mitochondria are."

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#324

Post by kubb »

kortilla wrote: post #318
kubb wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely people feeling that way can be attributed to the industry?

It’s privacy vs not. It doesn’t really need special lobbying

I’m sure that isn’t the full answer. Otherwise car ads wouldn’t be necessary and more affordable cars would outcompete the expensive ones.

There’s the utility component, the prestige factor and other things.

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#325

Post by mdp2021 »

kubb wrote: post #315
killerstorm wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the pressure of the auto lobby is really the reason. People feel cars are more convenient and more prestigious than riding on a bus. Car lobby certainly accelerated the process, but car users were the main driving force.

Surely people feeling that way can be attributed to the industry?

For hopefully most people, it should be attributed to the "Wait, now I have such a freedom and power?".

Opposite to "before the invention of bicycle, people married within a radius in the order of the mile" (can't remember the exact stat right now).

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#326

Post by icantevenhold »

illiac786 wrote: post #304
exitb wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve picked an interesting example, as driving a car, even with all safety precautions, is pretty much the most dangerous activity we do on a daily basis. Yet somehow we decide that the benefits outweigh the risks.

What do you mean “somehow”? You make it sound like people don’t weight benefits and risks. If you do not live in a large city, the benefits are so immense in terms of mobility, they outweigh the risks for most, very clearly. That’s why in large cities, much less people own a driving license for example, the benefits are just not there anymore. Granted, on the downsides, people look at cost more than risks.

I think they weigh the benefits and risks but then completely discard the risks, because humans are bad at evaluating risks.

More than a million people die each year on the road but for some reason terrorism and cancer dominate the risk assessment of people.

I bet any money that almost all people aren’t really afraid of entering a death box every day to drive to work.

How could they be; a lifetime of brainwashing doesnt let them asses the risk realistically

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#327

Post by lucamark »

paytonjjones wrote: post #2

Obviously security is the bigger issue, but reading through this, all I could think about was how many tokens it must have spent doing all that to fix 2 lines of CSS

It’s simple: if you have to fix 2 lines of CSS you should definitely not use Fable. Only use it for complex and long running tasks :)

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#328

Post by port3000 »

johnfn wrote: post #81

Honestly -- the thing that has impressed me the most about Fable is how diligent it is about testing its own changes. I think this is exactly what Simon is picking up here - Fable is absolutely heckbent on screenshotting that darn scroll bar and will stop at NOTHING until it manages it! In my own use I was also impressed how it proactively installed Playwright and set it up to test a FE change. The previous models tr…

It feels to me like Fable is just a slightly more advanced Opus 4.8 (or 4.6?) but with this 'adversarial' self-challenging/checking of work and a more compute to really hunt down edge cases or to spin up many sub agents using lesser models. That's what makes it feel like a big jump, but I think the results wouldn't be so different if you manually challenged 4.6 with enough iterations of logs, screenshots, and follow up questions.

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#329

Post by jen729w »

spunker540 wrote: post #189
ai_fry_ur_brain wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would this have taken 6 months? No offense, but this is a few days work without llms (assuming the content already exists). This should not have taken a month. Also, not trying to be an asshole. Props for not making it look like every other llm generated slop site, Its just not a great example.

I asked claude to crawl the website and summarize its findings, took about 10minutes. I'm not sure I would've done it faster, but i have no doubt you couldve done it in 5, and grokked the pages faster than an llm too. but anyway heres what claude said: Based on what I already saw across those 2,924 pages, here's the summary: It's a one-person business selling a file organisation methodology called Johnny.Decimal. Thr…

That's not a terrible read of the site's tech. It over-sells it a touch – I use Umami for analytics, for example – but yeah, auth, payments, entitlement-gated downloads, those downloads adapt to the app you've selected in your settings, yada yada.

I never said I was a good dev! That's why it would have taken me 6 months. To pretend that I could have done it in days is just silly.

My point – site roast over – is that it's absurd to suggest that LLMs don't help anyone 'ship' faster. Like them or not, it's a fact that they do.

Re: Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

#330

Post by jen729w »

SepiaSapient wrote: post #139
jen729w wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. I rebuilt my website in ~a month with the help of Opus 4.7/.8 and it would have taken me, unaided human, at least 6 months. Link's in my bio if you care. Satisfied now? Will you stop asking this question? Thought not.

I'm looking at something fairly standard that can be made with a SSG. The "Written by humans" footer gave a good chuckle tho.

I use Astro but it's not static, I server-render. There's a whole bunch of other stuff once you're signed in.
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