I build my apps the same way: mostly server-rendered HTML with a little JavaScript on top (Hotwire on Rails). They're mostly forms and CRUD, and it's worked for years with almost no client-side state to debug. I avoid React when I can. The frustrating part is there isn't much Hotwire or Rails work around these days. Most of the jobs want React.
The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
11–20 of 37 posts
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#12You can also get really small file sizes by ignoring frameworks and porting unsupported codecs to wasm.
I ported jbig2 (17kb uncompressed) and codec2 (60kb uncompressed) to wasm which enables me to use really small image and audio files in my web app. I also made a custom read only database and search engine with built-in zstd decompressor (39kb uncompressed). It probably wouldn't run on a psp though.
I like optimizing and making things small. I want to use neural audio codecs for even better compression but the model sizes and compute complexity are major hurdles and muddy the vision.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#13It feels like every week someone discovers that code closer to the metal is faster, and ignores the fact that it’s easier to write higher-level code, and that this is the specific tradeoff everyone is making. Why do these articles keep getting posted? Who is this a revelation to?
I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better results for his example.
If you looked at the gov.uk page [1] that he linked, it is clean and readable. It doesn't look hard to me to make, and I don't think it is lacking functionality.
I'll grant that writing web-apps without a framework is going to be harder for many people (especially with all the fancy features that are expected now days), but that is not the point of this writing. This is an argument that the web (especially government services) should be usable on limited devices too.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#14http://Bellard.org
is peak web design. Change my mind.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#15It feels like every week someone discovers that code closer to the metal is faster, and ignores the fact that it’s easier to write higher-level code, and that this is the specific tradeoff everyone is making. Why do these articles keep getting posted? Who is this a revelation to?
I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better results for his example. If you looked at the gov.uk page [1] that he linked, it is clean and readable. It doesn't look hard to me to make, and I don't think it is lacking functionality. I'll grant that writing web-apps without a framework is going to be harde…
The article and commenters are both complaining about JS in favor of HTML - I'm really just talking about it in this context.
Anyways, I disagree with the idea that we should make something simple enough for PSPs and car browsers. Just go to a library.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#16I get all my news by reading: NYT, WSJ, BBC, AP, and a few Substacks.
NYT has gotten so bloated both in actual content (long meandering interviews) as well as the encapsulating junk. I started to put it into Gemini to summarize. During this process I found, the two hour interview transcript was 50% actual words and 50% junk (probably formatting, tracking, adware, surveillance?).
The junk made me feel dirty.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#17(2021)
Some discussion at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25915313
And a more recent incarnation or variation:
Using Claude Code: The unreasonable effectiveness of HTML
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#18Thinking back to my community college days in 2020 (right before the pandemic!), I used to rock a crappy old dual core laptop with 4GB of RAM running Fedora. Browsing the web was less than ideal and YouTube barely worked. For certain classes (the big hassle was a DB class after I transferred) running the course software was very taxing and I had a harder time with that compared to other students as a result. I rememb…
It really is a sad reflection of our craft as a profession that 16GB is the bare minimum to do basic office tasks like email/browse a news website.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better results for his example. If you looked at the gov.uk page [1] that he linked, it is clean and readable. It doesn't look hard to me to make, and I don't think it is lacking functionality. I'll grant that writing web-apps without a framework is going to be harde…
The article and commenters are both complaining about JS in favor of HTML - I'm really just talking about it in this context. Anyways, I disagree with the idea that we should make something simple enough for PSPs and car browsers. Just go to a library.
You clearly took the lesson on board didn’t you.
Re: The unreasonable effectiveness of simple HTML (2021)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better results for his example. If you looked at the gov.uk page [1] that he linked, it is clean and readable. It doesn't look hard to me to make, and I don't think it is lacking functionality. I'll grant that writing web-apps without a framework is going to be harde…
The article and commenters are both complaining about JS in favor of HTML - I'm really just talking about it in this context. Anyways, I disagree with the idea that we should make something simple enough for PSPs and car browsers. Just go to a library.
What a depressingly elitist and exclusionary view. The modern web browser contains all the technology right there to make fast, maximally-accessible websites and even some “app”-like things, but nah you can’t be bothered, screw the less-fortunate. Would you want to “just go to a library” instead of use the device you already have? I strongly doubt it.