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Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

newscientist.com

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Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#161

Post by nextaccountic »

michaelt wrote: post #131
Chu4eeno wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which historically is one of the main reasons we think about “Artificial Intelligence” instead of cybernetics (Wiener kind of pissed off the defense dept). Cybernetics and artificial intelligence are two distinct fields, though? I have friends with degrees in both, it's not some long lost alternative name for AI (though we're unlikely to see something like Project Cybersyn using cybernetics today instead of some ov…

Before the rise of modern LLMs, when both AI and cybernetics were just futurists’ speculation, some people saw parallels. For example, thinking humans wouldn’t be displaced by super intelligent machines, but would instead be augmented by them cybernetically, becoming super intelligent while still having a human soul and body.

> For example, thinking humans wouldn’t be displaced by super intelligent machines, but would instead be augmented by them cybernetically, becoming super intelligent while still having a human soul and body.

If human adoption of brain-machine interfaces progresses fast enough, I don't see why this future can't still happen.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#162

Post by bawolff »

alephnerd wrote: post #138
matheusmoreira wrote: post #132

The meta keeps evolving. I suppose the next step is to create drones designed to intercept each other. Then swarms of drones will battle it out in the sky fully autonomously.

> The meta... I hate this kind of terminology with such fervent hatred as someone DefTech adjacent. It's just the sheer callousness of gamifying warfare. Edit: can't reply > How would you have me call it Tactics. It's emotionally neutral and sounds less like someone who follows warfare the same way someone follows competitive StarCraft 2 or DoTA.

People have been gamifying war since prehistoric times. Most traditional sports are basically practise for war. While we have moved past it in the last few decades, most toys for boys are war based (tin soldiers aren't being used to act out an imaginary disarmament scenario). We even use the word "game theory" to denote the mathematical study of strategy (which often ends up being about war).

The ship has well and truly sailed.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#163

Post by wds »

namegulf wrote: post #152
delichon wrote: post #31

This was back in 2026, before they released the Dredd series for civilian applications with onboard due processing and agents for prosecution, defense, judge, jury and executioner with millisecond response times, drastically reducing price per perpetrator.

Back in 2026? Are we living in an alternate universe?

Well, yes, the comment is living in an alternate universe. It's a parable.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#164

Post by dieortin »

machomaster wrote: post #155
dieortin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in those systems a human chose the target. Here, an AI does. > but humans are more likely to make this kind of mistake more than a computer or AI model Based on?

The stats of USA using human-guided drones to kill people. A civilian/military ratio and numbers was worse that 11.9. Heck, check the American drone war crime video Wikileaks published. The one that made the USA so angry that it decided to attack and destroy the journalists.

The USA tends to kill way more civilians than any other military in the world though, so I’m not sure it’s a good example.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#165

Post by somat »

That is not true. By my calculation the first human killed by drones was probably September 24, 1958 when planes were shot down by fully autonomous rocket powered kamikaze drones released over the taiwan strait.

My point being A. we have been killing people with fully autonomous drones for a long time now. and B. why the name change? just because it uses a propeller or is in vertical helicopter form does it is not a guided missile?

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#166

Post by jwrallie »

I find it hard to believe that they were doing an experiment with tech that can fly by itself and pick targets but did not have its own camera and recording device.

The article mentions that they had to go to the area with different drones and saw dead people then assumed the cause of death was the automated drones.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#168

Post by kelipso »

jwrallie wrote: post #166

I find it hard to believe that they were doing an experiment with tech that can fly by itself and pick targets but did not have its own camera and recording device. The article mentions that they had to go to the area with different drones and saw dead people then assumed the cause of death was the automated drones.

Yeah…technically possible but reckless beyond belief.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#169

Post by trhway »

machomaster wrote: post #151
trhway wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mixing together different drone types (payload, range, operational role, etc.). >luckily for Ukrainians these gliding bombs lack precision. Not really. They don't have 3m CEP, that is true. Yet, a 2000lb bomb doesn't need it. They do hit the targeted buildings, which is enough. The main limitation here is that those bombs require military jet planes to launch. Russia is severely limited here.

The lack of precision does matter when we are talking about trenches/bunkers and bombs often missing by many dozens and even hundreds of meters.

Unfortunately they don't miss by hundreds of meters. And Russia frequently uses 3000lb and 6000lb bombs. So missing a bunker a bit doesn't matter - it will still collapse. Here for example it is clearly visible that the bomb misses the building by about 20m https://t.me/RtrDonetsk/25282

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#170

Post by nozzlegear »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #117
namuol wrote: post #94

> “We just launch it and we know everything will be dead – everything that will be found there in this particular area will be dead,” says Kokhanovskyy. “There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothing… Everything it sees will be killed.” This is a clear war crime. We don’t need to update any international laws, do we? This is by definition indiscriminate, like landmines or chemical weap…

There is nothing but valid targets in those zones. Not different from sending a cruise missile on a military base killing everything there.

If we accept that the use of chemical weapons versus kinetic weapons is clearly different even though both were used on military targets, we should also consider whether a cruise missile and an autonomous drone are clearly different. Just because the target has a Russian uniform on doesn't mean it's okay to kill them in whatever way we can dream up.
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